Which is more important - lure shape or action or a bit of both?

As many on this forum know from my posts, I don't believe fish are fooled into attacking a lure based on what they think a lure is - two key words in bold. Fish react - period. What they react to has a lot to do with lure shape, action and presentation.

As I was making some lures in the basement, it occurred to me that most lures fish react to are linear in shape and whether a lure has eyes painted on (hard lures) or rear fins (Fin S Fish) is insignificant. Most important is how the lure moves and how fast it moves based on lure design limitations.

Most grubs produced have round bodies and many are segmented, giving them a bit of texture but also the appearance a bit similar to a worm of some kind. Mr. Twister and other similar grubs have been produced with that shape for decades, few anglers questioning the need.

But as of late summer of last year when I discovered a smooth bullet shape that caught everything that swims, the revelation led me to making short 2.5", smooth mini-worms, using softer plastic then that used to make most grubs - including the Fin S Fish by Lunker City. They have caught as many fish as the cone-tail grubs and proven to me that lure action matters most and that not all soft plastic designs are equal.

In the next few days, I'll put that theory to the test using a thin 2 1/4" worm rigged on a light jig head but with one difference: it will have four flat sides ending in the usual taper to the tail. The cross section is in the shape of a square - not round and the action will be no different than that of the rounded body version. Thicker grubs would most likely not work well with four flat sides seeing as how the roundness of the bullet shape body produces the waddle that is so effective at provoking fish to strike.

Lure action speaks louder than appearance much of the time and the proof will be in me catching at least a few dozen fish on a worm with four flat sides. I will report the results.

I dunno Spoonie. I buy stuff that looks good to me. I must have real good "taste" in lures cause I catch fish with stuff I buy. Also helps to ask others "what happenin man".

Depends on how hungry they are!

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Originally Posted by Locator79

Depends on how hungry they are!

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they must not be hungry whenever I'm around :Rofl

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Originally Posted by Spoonminnow

As many on this forum know from my posts, I don't believe fish are fooled into attacking a lure based on what they think a lure is - two key words in bold. Fish react - period. What they react to has a lot to do with lure shape, action and presentation.

As I was making some lures in the basement, it occurred to me that most lures fish react to are linear in shape and whether a lure has eyes painted on (hard lures) or rear fins (Fin S Fish) is insignificant. Most important is how the lure moves and how fast it moves based on lure design limitations.

Most grubs produced have round bodies and many are segmented, giving them a bit of texture but also the appearance a bit similar to a worm of some kind. Mr. Twister and other similar grubs have been produced with that shape for decades, few anglers questioning the need.

But as of late summer of last year when I discovered a smooth bullet shape that caught everything that swims, the revelation led me to making short 2.5", smooth mini-worms, using softer plastic then that used to make most grubs - including the Fin S Fish by Lunker City. They have caught as many fish as the cone-tail grubs and proven to me that lure action matters most and that not all soft plastic designs are equal.

In the next few days, I'll put that theory to the test using a thin 2 1/4" worm rigged on a light jig head but with one difference: it will have four flat sides ending in the usual taper to the tail. The cross section is in the shape of a square - not round and the action will be no different than that of the rounded body version. Thicker grubs would most likely not work well with four flat sides seeing as how the roundness of the bullet shape body produces the waddle that is so effective at provoking fish to strike.

Lure action speaks louder than appearance much of the time and the proof will be in me catching at least a few dozen fish on a worm with four flat sides. I will report the results.

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Include some pictures of what you catch with your report

I have used different things to catch fish, just for the heck of it. And have caught fish on the remains of a bait that was torn up and cast again anyway, just for the heck of it. So I agree that fish react when their basic interests are met, and the item fits the delivery that interests them. Good luck with the experiment and keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know.

Both.But if you have the Right bait,Right action and their are no fish"crappie,Bream,Bass,Walleye"The type of fish" in the spot,lake,river then it does not matter.Finding The fish"crappie" you are trying to catch or fishing where the fish are is more important.:twocents

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So I agree that fish react when their basic interests are met, and the item fits the delivery that interests them.

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Please elucidate.

Could be fish think 'food' when they attack a lure or could be they simply attack when provoked. Lure characteristics (not any realistic appearance or action) that provoke are sensory-basic (visual / lateral line) from what I've experienced regardless of fish species. If most fish were hungry when they attacked and missed a lure, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would attack it again? Most did not on the second cast after the initial bump.

Here are the test baits:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...pspociogxx.jpg

Lure action for the above is the same as for round worms and fish that may attacks these lures do not have an eye for detail.
Two other pretty unrealistic looking designs that always work once fish are found:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...psfrzczrfq.jpg

Well, I'd suggest that nothing works "always". Which is why so many plastic designs and styles are currently on the market. Catching crappie, just like with any other fish, is predicated upon depth & speed control. After those criteria are met, then presentation, action and color enter into the picture.

I have found that straight tailed plastics (i.e.: BGBS) are my most consistent producer, under a wide variety of conditions. The seemingly lack of "action" in these bodies is indicative of the crappie's main forage - minnows. They rarely move with the erratic action of either curly or paddle tails. But every day on the water is certainly different and you must carry a variety of lures in order to "give the fish what they want" on a daily basis. JMO! :)

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I have found that straight tailed plastics (i.e.: BGBS) are my most consistent producer, under a wide variety of conditions. The seemingly lack of "action" in these bodies is indicative of the crappie's main forage - minnows. They rarely move with the erratic action of either curly or paddle tails.

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The bullet shaped grub in the last picture as well as the tail end of a thin plastic worm always exhibit action, subtle as it is. One slightly waddles/glides; the other twitches/whips and wiggles - both actions with no rod action imparted except through an angler's involuntary muscle twitches and wave action (if present).

Animals of many species are very sensitive to subtle movements of living or artificial objects. Granted, poppers on the surface can generate some slamn' hits, but generally a fish's environment is muted by human standards, but as busy as rush hour via a fish's amplifying senses. Anglers who do best keep this in mind a majority of the time and assume fish activity levels are at the low end, needing only to be tweaked higher by finesse action and presentation.

Granted, there is a tiny percentage of my outings that produce less fish per hour than others, but if anyone starts catching fish next to me, I will generally keep up if not surpass that angler's catch rate - at least for pan fish. (Bass are a different story.)

The nice thing about using artificial lures is the huge variety of subtle-action lures fish will hit. But as with most lures, there is a time and place for even generally less productive baits - many that I thought fish would never strike (IE the Joker). Fish don't have motives for striking but are motivated nonetheless.

a guy i know who used to produce plastics ( constant pursuit outfitters ) made a plastic called a thump chubby ....i thought it was the most ridiculous bait ever made , shaped just like a nickel with a tiny tail sticking off it .....i tried them a time or 2 with out much success ....then a bud of mine took me out and spanked me good using them .
lure shapes in many cases imitate baitfish and or other types of forage ....not all forage is linear in shape ......
just something to keep in mind ......

Where we fish in our home lakes with water temps in the high 80's 85-86 deg.Can see a white jig 10'.It is really hard to catch a fish in the day time with artificial baits. Espically,Especially crappie and walleye.If your not fishing Rosey Red minnow's"live" ones your not catching.We were fishing yesterday in the Rain tried every color that had been producing.Nothing.A Local Crappie master pulled up to where we were fishing asked if we had any luck.We had caught a couple dink's."He Said you are not fishing the Right Bait"I said being the Crappie.com crappie master fishermen."We were schooled by the master crappiefishermen"What is the right bait?I said with a scowl" He said "Rosey Red Mimmow's" He sat their and caught 100 keeping his limit of 10" or better crappie and some keeper Walleye.We had just poured some Rosey Red plastic's that CTom had given us the recipe in the plastic pouring section.We put on the Rosey Red's game on we did not catch a 100 but ended up with enough to Grease the skillet.LOL.Did not matter bait or action.The fish were their.They wanted RoseyRed's.Did not matter bait or action They crappie wanted a rosey Red minnow,Not a shinner,Not a black head,They wanted a rosey Red minnow or not at all. Attachment 244074Attachment 244075Attachment 244076Attachment 244077Attachment 244078Attachment 244079 The cat Fish kept slimming our baits.LOL The wanted the Rosey Red baits.

Great post! I concur. The problem with most drop shot fishermen, that fish for bass in particular, is that they impart way too much action to their bait. Probably thinking that "have to" impart some action. In reality, just holding a drop shot presentation still, works far better most times.

Owner of website inserts shameless plug here: OUR SPONSORS BAITS ARE THE BEST - each and everyone of them can catch fish, I guarantee. :biggrin

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Originally Posted by Slab

Owner of website inserts shameless plug here: OUR SPONSORS BAITS ARE THE BEST - each and everyone of them can catch fish, I guarantee. :biggrin

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They have always worked for me when I can find the fish

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Result of experiment using a grub with four flat sides:
Worked great and on four fish species - crappie, perch, sun fish and small bass.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...psjrx3sp0g.jpg

The above after it caught over 20 fish:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...psfkwmba2c.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...pscwkvxsmi.jpghttp://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...psi4nucsis.jpg

other lures that worked just as well:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...pshcgbzgmd.jpghttp://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...psbknjir9y.jpg

All told, over 80 fish were caught - some near steep drops into 12' , others in water 4-5', using 1/32 and 1/16 oz jigs tied to 6# test fluorocarbon leaders. Slow slightly erratic retrieved lures got slammed!

This has been one of, if not the most interesting thread I have read on Crappie.com. Here in East Texas where I fish most of the time, I have learned two things. 1. When nothing is working, go smaller and put as little action as possible on the bait. 2. The best baits for me are tubes or the shad type baits. I have many different styles of baits, even the joker, and find the tubes and shads out produce all the others. I like that 4 sided bait, and I like the color.
I saw a guy on here a while back that made his own baits by melting plastic and pouring it over a board and after it hardened, he cut it into strips and fished with them.
Thanks for the thread.

later...don

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a guy on here a while back that made his own baits by melting plastic and pouring it over a board and after it hardened, he cut it into strips

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Same here except I use a glassy surfaced, ceramic floor tile. Nice thing is that I can recycle old lures and previously heated plastic. A pyrex cup, microwave and a razor blade does the rest.

When it comes to lure action, sometimes a certain design calls for softener to be added to the plastic to make it quiver with the least imparted action - very important for some lures swimming under floats. The bullet shaped lure (pictured above) doesn't need to be very soft because the hydrodynamic shape causes a waddle as it's worked slowly along.

Any lure can be imagined by an angler to represent this or that forage, but at the end of the day the angler who catches the most fish knows which lures do best regardless of what they look like. If I had to choose only two lure designs to use for the rest of my life (other than my own), it would be jackie53's designs. Anyone who can't do well with those is reeling them improperly.

My opinion is presentation and location more important than anything . Can't catch em if they are not there . I think tubes and such work so good because of suttle action .:twocents