Redneck scientific study of pvc / pex and algae growth

or should i rename it to " how to grow green slime on pcv" ?

This is going to probably be long winded and picture heavy, so bear with me.

what started me looking into this is that the lake level has dropped and exposed a couple of my crappie jacks that i put in last year, 2 had algae completely covering them but the other was still looking good as new. i picked it up and could see i missed sanding the pcv on it and the only place that had algae was the concrete and center section that was sanded. it didnt seem to bother the fish as we caught a boat load off of them all. i relocated them all just a bit deeper and kept fishing. BUT I HAD A NAGGING FEELING

I have researched this and have found no studies on freshwater fisheries trying to promote algae growth, and most lake studies are trying to eliminate it along with the natural grasses underwater.


If this has been done before . Please stop me!!!!

I would appreciate any help/ input or suggestions along the way.

I plan on doing a Redneck not-so scientific study on the different type of plastics and hardwoods most of us use for crappie beds, and how fast a person can expect microorganisms and subsequently the fish to use them as a home base.

Study plan:
5 different starting bases
#1: sanded pvc /crappie jack
#2 unsanded pcv tubing /crappie jack
#3: sanded pex tubing
#4 unsanded pex tubing
#5 wood- wild cherry hardwood (due to availability in my field)
Possibly more hardwoods as I progress,( oak, hedge, cedar and elm)

2 different types of protein based conditioners will be used along with a non- conditioned standard base to follow the growth of algae and the time it takes for each to grow the microorganisms that will attract fish and hold them.

This plan is going to be 2 to 4 weeks long and will take place in my small pond so I can observe without removing or disturbing them much.
I will check them every 3 days and report findings with pics

My base models will consist of 3 pcv crappie jacks, pcv tubing , pex tubing and a wild cherry post freshly cut.
one will be a sanded pcv base without any conditioners.
The other 2 will be sanded but a different conditioner on each
One unsanded pcv pipe with all 3 components and conditioners separated
Pex and wood will have all 3 types separated
I will ziptie a small twig to each of the jacks, to see if it will help promote algae growth on the pvc by being close to it.
I also spray painted a small section flat lacquer black to see if there are any adhesion or growth issues to the paint.

I am sure there are a million other test that could be done.

1st conditioner will be miracle grow plant spay protein
2nd conditioner will be fish fertilizer plant concentrate spray (stinky stuff)
Both are available at most hardware stores and under 5 bucks each for a big bottle of concentrate. Other proteins are available at a much higher cost, but I want to keep it in a small budget and be able to keep a bottle in my boat for future use( if it helps promote algae growth sooner.)
All conditioners will be sprayed on and let dry for 20 or 30 minutes. Before deploying into the secret study lake.

Here goes
Day 1: FEB 15 Monday
Current temp 55 degrees
Lows tonight 30 degrees
The Forecast is calling for some great weather this week
60's for highs and 30's for lows, no rain baro 29.88 and dropping slowly

The Secret lake:
Water temp 38 degrees with some thin ice on north side
Visibility = clear
Water depth of testing =will be 2 to 4 foot (for observation purposes)
I took a few pics on my phone along the way today.
I hope I am not the only one that is curious?
Attachment 229086Attachment 229088Attachment 229090Attachment 229092Attachment 229089Attachment 229093Attachment 229094Attachment 229095

Algae is a LIFE-TIME research topic in itself...No one really knows how many different types of Algae there are.....estimates are from 70 thousand to Half-a-Million different types....some researchers believe there are more than that???
Seaweed and Kelp are just 2 forms that no one ever thinks about....then on the other end, you have the Toxic Blue/Green and Red algae.
Algae can use up the available Oxygen in a body of water, or make Oxygen in a body of water! Algae helps to build reefs, and starts the decomposing process!
As much as I like to read and learn, I have barely touched the surface, of the information available!

At certain times in our lake you can use an underwater camera, and watch baitfish graze certain types of algae off of PVC or Wood cover....you can also see fish huddled around cover UNDER the thermocline, which tells you that in certain locations the Algae is using the CO2 and making Pure Oxygen, that the fish are using to stay at cooler depths!

Our lake is almost 2500 acres and VERY Fertile due to AG run-off....After 10 plus years of providing cover for our home lake, I can say that cover we have put in builds a very strong and attached colony when the PVC or Plastic is Heavily sanded with at least a 60 grit sandpaper.
PVC that hasn't been sanded can be wiped clean of the algae, with just staining left over....sanded PVC actually provided attachment points and grooves to build a solid attachment....you can wipe of the colony, but the base stays attached!
We've only pulled up PVC after a month, and by then, it is covered....I've never tried to see how quickly it develops a base colony!

It is an Amazing topic...Good Luck...this should be fun!

I'm interested

The only types of wood that would NOT recommend to use as cover are the pressure treated types and ANY type of walnut. BTW both PVC and PEX are chemically engineered to RESIST algae growth/ attachment. Will watch this thread with interest sir...

DAY# 3 :RESULTS
Feb 18, Thursday

Air temp: 64 degrees and sunny
water temp: 44 degrees and clear



Crappie Jacks results:
FISH FERTILIZER TEST had definite algae and was slick all over, looks promising already but time will tell.

** I did notice on day one that the snails were all over the fish fertilizer , so it may residue from the snails that attracted the algae?

**And another side note : fish fertilizer smells and taste just like the old BJ catfish bait, yes I tasted it accidentally when I was spraying it on .


MIRACLE GROW TEST: had some algae growth and semi slick in spots ,but not as much as the fish fertilizer test.

BASE NO CONDITIONERS: no algae growth seen or felt.

BASE PVC UNSANDED RESULTS:
NO noticeable algae growth or slick feel, it still looks brand new.



WOOD TEST RESULTS:


Miracle Grow Test: definite algae growth and very slick

Base no conditioners: little or no algae growth seen or felt

Fish Fertilizer: definite algae growth and very slick…. I could not tell a difference been the two conditioners , but the results are promising.

PEX TEST RESULTS:

Little or NO algae growth across the board, looked as new as the day I put it in, no slick feel.


**I will report back in a few days.

Tight lines everybody


***SIDE NOTE::

My wife drove in the driveway and seen me at the pond taking pictures of my PCV test , so she comes down and asks ( slowly and in a sarcastic tone voice) What Are You Doing???

My answer: " I'm growing algae in a kind of a scientific study so I can catch more fish"

Her response: " Are you ..bleeping.. Serious? Why don’t you finish the.. Bleeping... Food Pantry that you started last summer and the …bleeping Pool Deck instead of playing in the ..bleeping ..water? ...Bleep bleep bleep as she walks away.
My answer; " What's for Dinner?"
Her answer : " bleep…bleep…bleep"

I had to eat a bowl of cereal for dinner, but the sacrifice will be worth it in the end ,I hope.

This is getting good, thanks for sharing!

Great project! Looking forward to reading the results. I've put some PVC out (unsanded) and gave up on it. Now I sand PVC, buckets, etc before sinking. Curious about how quickly hardwoods pull in big crappie as well.

This is good stuff right here. :cheers2

Looking forward to following this!

Feb 21, Sunday .
Air temp 61 degrees and sunny

Water temp 53 degrees at test depth


I believe im going to have to change things up a bit
I think I need to wait longer like 6 to 8 days between test so as not to disturb the algae by pulling them out of the water so often. So after this test I will observe by wading out to them and pulling them straight up and taking pictures or pull out my aqua view and observe without touching.



My research shows optimal growing temps are between 60-80 degrees.
And being less than optimal conditions for algae growth in the winter ,it will dramatically alter the results compared to later in the year.
But this is when most of us plant pcv/ pex and brush piles, and is the reason why I am doing this now.


DAY 6
TEST RESULTS ON PVC/CRAPPIE JACKS

Fish Fertilizer- definitely more algae growth and can be well seen by wiping my finger across, and it is well rooted in the sanded areas.

Base no conditioners- from seeing nothing 3 days ago, (Surprisingly ,it looks like it is catching up with the pack), definite algae growth and very slick.


Miracle Grow- Much more pronounced algae growth( compared to 3 days ago) and is well rooted in the heavily sanded areas. Slick areas wipe away easily.


SUMMERY OF PCV TEST:
The fish fert is still ahead of the pack , but the others are right close behind.
I wondering now if conditioners will even help after a couple weeks, I thinking I wont be able to tell a difference between them if I took the labels off at that time …time will tell


WOOD TEST:


Fish fert- still going strong - algae firmly attached and very slick , the snails are still loving it too

Base wood- still very little algae growth and no slick feel yet

Miracle Grow- Definitely more algae growth- I cant tell the difference between the two conditioners added

SUMMERY OF WOOD TEST:
It is looking as of now that the conditioners are the way to go on the wood, even if it is only temporary, it seems to help the wood get a jump-start on algae growth…time will tell


TEST RESULTS PEX TUBING:

Finally the pex is starting to grow algae, (I wish I would have used white instead of blue for the test, I am sure it would show up a lot better in the pics.)
Algae Layer is very thin but now getting slick

I cannot tell a difference between the base and the conditioners, as the entire length is slick feeling, but it is hard to see any growth on the blue tubing.

SUMMERY OF PEX TEST:
it looks like conditioners are not going to outperform on the pex tubing

I also added another test,
White pvc and cpvc, sanded and unsanded sections with conditioners added

See you guys in a week, hopefully I can get my Aqua view out , charge it up and observe from land.

*Sorry for being a couple days late reporting, the fish have been tearing it up here

Steve
Very Nice results...goes along with what we see...really appreciate the research.

.... it makes me feel better to know I am not the only one who gets a little nagging for special projects. Seriously though dude... pretty extensive work to grow some green snot on a limb

Cool project! Out of curiousity, how deep are these test structures in the water column? I agree with your assessment of checking your structures less frequently to minimize the disturbance to the alae. We have used slick black irrigation drain pipe as material in the past. After placing some structures made out of it, we dove on them 2 weeks later and there was already a thin layer of algae growing on it. And like you said, it wiped off easily. Water current from my fins even caused it to come off. You started off your post asking if there are any studies that talk about attempting to increase algae growth. We do this annually on many Arkansas lakes by feetilizing them. You should be able to find some good info on the impacts of a fertilization program to algae growth in lakes if you are interested in the subject. This is similar concept to the conditioners that you are using. They both increase the productivity of the water. Your method is more localized and focused as apposed to a broad ferlizer application program. You applying the treatment directly to the structures surface is a very interesting idea. The next logical step would be to document what types and size of fish are utilizing the different test structures. Keep up the good research. I look forward to seeing your results!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D10

Cool project! Out of curiousity, how deep are these test structures in the water column? I agree with your assessment of checking your structures less frequently to minimize the disturbance to the alae. We have used slick black irrigation drain pipe as material in the past. After placing some structures made out of it, we dove on them 2 weeks later and there was already a thin layer of algae growing on it. And like you said, it wiped off easily. Water current from my fins even caused it to come off. You started off your post asking if there are any studies that talk about attempting to increase algae growth. We do this annually on many Arkansas lakes by feetilizing them. You should be able to find some good info on the impacts of a fertilization program to algae growth in lakes if you are interested in the subject. This is similar concept to the conditioners that you are using. They both increase the productivity of the water. Your method is more localized and focused as apposed to a broad ferlizer application program. You applying the treatment directly to the structures surface is a very interesting idea. The next logical step would be to document what types and size of fish are utilizing the different test structures. Keep up the good research. I look forward to seeing your results!

---

This is why we always tell People to really sand and cut into the PVC or Plastic with at least 60 grit sandpaper...it really allows the colonies of algae to grab onto the plastic and build a strong base.

You guys can come up North and get all the Fertilized water that you want! :)
Due to agriculture and homeowner run-off, storm sewer overflow, loss of Marsh land and Buffers, and animal and human waste flushed into the waters, most of our waterways are unfit to use during the summer.
Probably 3/4ths of our lakes are closed due to toxic algae, have scum on the surface, and are unusable for fishing, swimming, or drinking!
We've even figured out how to Screw Up THE GREAT LAKES!

Not to get too far off topic, do you happen to know the total water harness of alcolinity range and nitrate to phosphate ratio (N:P) is your waters up there? My guess is that they have a low water hardness and alcholinity and there is much more phosphorus than nitrogen. This set up can result in an abundance of HAB (harmful algae blooms). This is seen on some lakes in Arkansas but not very ofter. As our reservoirs age and the phosphorus builds up in the sediments, HABs will become more common down here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D10

Not to get too far off topic, do you happen to know the total water harness of alcolinity range and nitrate to phosphate ratio (N:P) is your waters up there? My guess is that they have a low water hardness and alcholinity and there is much more phosphorus than nitrogen. This set up can result in an abundance of HAB (harmful algae blooms). This is seen on some lakes in Arkansas but not very ofter. As our reservoirs age and the phosphorus builds up in the sediments, HABs will become more common down here.

---

Our Reservoirs are Hyper Eutrophic, high hardness, alkaline, with EXTREMELY high Phosphorus levels! Several lakes have warnings each year NOT TO BOAT, SWIM, OR EVEN TOUCH THE WATER...ACCESS IS OFTEN RESTRICTED and WARNINGS NOT TO CATCH OR EAT THE FISH!
It is Shameful!
The largest Inland Freshwater lake in Ohio is Grand Lake St. Marys...12,500 acres....it's now only 5 to 7 feet deep....it has filled in with Phosphorus Sediment....they actually had to close it several times. They are spending Millions upon Millions to try to fix it, to no avail yet...They have dredged over a Million cubic yards, Alum, treatments, building buffers and wetlands, removing trash fish, etc....Now other lakes are blowing up the same and being closed! There's not enough money to repair our lakes. A sad lesson has been learned!

This is very interesting. Don't know the science behind it but I've always heard that pvc should be rough sanded and sprayed with buttermilk. Anyone else ever heard this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nixon

This is very interesting. Don't know the science behind it but I've always heard that pvc should be rough sanded and sprayed with buttermilk. Anyone else ever heard this?

---

Same principal that Steve is doing.
We've always just rough sanded...but as I said, our Northern lakes are VERY Fertile and loaded with Algae.

Very good info here, great to know.

What you are doing is providing information on the very bottom of the food chain. Unfortunately many "fisherman " care only for filling their buckets and just don`t realize that the part of the food chain that WE consume is SO very limited. you can have the bottom 4/5th of that food chain without a single fish present but you CAN NOT have fish without the bottom 4/5ths supporting and ultimately FEEDING them...

i will post updates tomorrow. took pics last Sunday and i will again tomorrow to catch up . i wish there was an easier way to load pics it take forever to load individually . been super busy with work. this damn JOB is getting in the way of my fishing!!!

Feb 28, Sunday
Wednesday, March 09, 2016
10:05 PM
Week 3

Temp 46 degress
Water temp 49

Cold front this weekend with high winds sure screwed up my fishing but I went anyways

Im a little slow reporting,( this is very time consuming for me ,one finger typing) I am not a computer guru and cant stand sitting behind a computer when I can be working on important stuff -like my boat , tying jigs or figuring out to run that dang GARMIN unit.

TEST RESULTS- PVC crappie jacks/ grey underground conduit

BASE no conditioners
Light algae growth forming well, UN-sanded areas have little to no growth

Mir-Gro-
Heavy growth this week , nice layer forming and holding well in sanded areas, UN-sanded areas have half the growth and wipe off easily when touching

Fish Fert-
Heavy growth this week, leading the pack so far

Summery: Underground pcv conduit
Conditioners seemed to help jumpstart growth especially in sanded areas,


CPVC-
Holy moly the algae really like this stuff
I put it in without any conditioners and sanded half of the section
Algae growth is the same on each section but it wipes off easily in the Un-sanded part. I may use more of this in the future if it continues to do well

White PVC-
Little to no algae growth, dirt has collected in the sanded areas.
No slick feel and no green growth can be seen by eye
Conditioners have made NO difference as of yet.

Summery: White PVC
Recently I pulled a crappie jack I put in last year (due to the low water)and I relocated it to deeper water , the algae never really stuck to it ( I probably forgot to sand it),
Don’t fret!!! it didn’t seem to bother the fish because we caught several off of it last fall


PEX-
Very little growth this week, a slight slick feel the entire length but no visible green goo on my finger when wiped

Summery: PEX
I believe the blue pex is chemically treated against mold growth , (as it is made for residential water supply). Black irrigation pex works well .i have several in the water that are hard crusted with algae after a year, just make sure to sand it heavily.

BASE WOOD-
Little to no growth compared to last week, still no slick feel

MIR GRO WOOD-
Heavy growth on bottom side for some reason, sharp edges seem to be the heaviest concentrations

Fish Fert WOOD-
the same as the miracle grow, heavy growth on bottom and slick all over, several small silver dollar size spots forming hair like strands especially on sharp edges.



Summery -WOOD TEST
Conditioners sure seemed to have helped jump start the wood test, and from now on I plan on using them every time, I will have to go with the miracle grow formula on the wood, as it is much cleaner and doesn’t stink


Results for week 4 will be up soon