Do any of you in other states have a labor shortage in new construction? Florida is hurting bad for experienced construction workers in all trades. Framers, concrete guys, plumbers, electricians, roofers, you name it we need it down here.
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Do any of you in other states have a labor shortage in new construction? Florida is hurting bad for experienced construction workers in all trades. Framers, concrete guys, plumbers, electricians, roofers, you name it we need it down here.
Call the Union Hall .......................
Union hall wont touch a residential home. Not enough $$ in em. Least that is what they think anyway. Union does not understand piece work that everyone has been forced to turn to and remain competitive.
We have a similar situation here. Rural West Tn is the home of the meth generation. Besides, why work when free rides are available?
I have some of the smarts but not the body to get it done anymore.
Cane Pole says a mouthful: But much of this stuff is caused (too) by the influx of (undocumented) cheap labor in some areas that undercuts the guts out of most legitimate contractors; who (unlike) the undocumented workers (who our government allows to fly under the radar) are forced to comply with much more state and federal requirements and codes and carry far more insurances and much greater overhead costs that (quite simply) won't allow them to compete with the lower costs of labor and/or the low ball estimates that tend to win a huge percentage of the bids and bidding wars in today's economy.
NO CONTRACTORS = NO CONSTRUCTION LABORERS.
IMHO: This is the very type of reverse engineering "cause and effect" that our government is world famous for. It's the same logic that caused the Mom & Pop businesses (that made our country great) to become extinct by way of the mega stores who undercut the local economy by finding products created by cheaper labor (usually in other countries); eventually local businesses become casualties of the almighty power of the dollar in the modern era... along with the total sacrifice of customer service and sense of duty to drive a solid and healthy economy. What's next in their hit parade??? You gotta wonder!!!
Cane pole is right. Also for the last 60 years all younguns are told to get advanced education so you will not have to do manual labor. Craftsmanship is a thing of the past and no one wants an entry level job to learn a trade because the government pay for sorryness is so much better. :mad:
I agree on alot of that SK. What Canepole says applies here as well. The other problem is the 8 year recession we endured had no opportunities for young guys coming out of high school to start an apprenticeship or even start as green helpers. The ones that could went wherever they could find work and others found new lines of work out of necessity. Now we are faced with a huge shortage of skilled labor.
I have to add that it's a shame that today people will not learn what pride one feels when they build or create something themselves. :deadhorse
This is the other big part. Yes we need advanced education but not every one is cut out for that or have the desire to add another 4 years or more of school. We are doing a disservice to kids today cutting the shop programs out of our high schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger
Last time I was in south Florida, if you spoke English you weren't working in residential building trades. My F-I-L flipped a bunch of houses and the language barrier drove him out.
I have worked in the HVAC and plumbing,pipe fitting,controls sector for 40 years.I grew up in a Mom & Pop plumbing and heating business,and moved on to work as an installer,service tech and manager for some larger companies,worked as an estimator bidding and designing large commercial jobs. Having been so exposed to the different trades and having at times needed labor for major projects.It occurred to me after a time the construction industry as a whole is a little different than a lot of jobs because it requires you to know something and do something physical.You must also be able to work outdoors in the worst of weather,and to be mobile and take your show on the road. Having to think and perform in an office or "controlled environment" with a familiar routine is one thing.Having to think hard and work hard when the it's blowing snow at 20 degrees, or in the blazing sun at 100 degrees in a place you have never been in your life is quite another.
It just takes a certain kind of person.And even those who are pretty good at it will decide its too tough and work their way out of it a lot of times. The new housing side was always the least profitable sector in all the companies I worked for. And the guys who did the new houses usually got paid the least.
That is correct in south Florida ( lil Cuba)Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdux
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggone
This is spot on except the very last sentence. Our residential division is far more profitable than the commercial/industrial division. And our residential electricians on average make more per year than the commercial guys. Even with the swingshift and night shift rates.
After we learned our home had sold, we started looking at new homes, pre-owned homes and decided quickly to find a contractor that used American men that
were good at what they did and had pride in their workmanship. Yes, the cabinet maker is retired but still enjoys working at his pace. We hired him. Our long
time air conditioner man will install our heat and air in our new home. The contractor is young and rearing to go with having built his own home and several for
others. We checked them out and liked his workmanship. His attention to detail and ability to adjust to changes in stride was my kind of man to work with.
His suggestions were well received by both my wife and I and we feel comfortable with his ability to build what we wanted. He will not employ non English speaking
people on his jobs. For a young man he is qualified to do his own inspections and installations of electricity and plumbing. He is accustomed to working from sketches
made on the kitchen table and was very receptive to my plans I had drawn up on the computer. I feel comfortable and he wants to use our home as a reference for
others to see his workmanship. I won't say I have the most critical eye, but I know enough to recognize when something ain't right. I do ask questions when I see
something that I'm leary about. I have friends that will be watching the process that have retired from the building business. We watched and videoed our current home
being built and are ready for the challenge. We know what to expect.
We will be camped out next to our home being built and will be watching over the inventory while the work progresses. Win win for us.
Sounds like you found a great contractor RR. I hope your home is a place of dreams. We get several applicants every week that dont speak a word of english. I talk to them in the interview until their eyes glass over. Then I go and get our bi lingual dispatcher and have her ask them how
If hired he planned to communicate with the english speaking project managers if he cant make it through the interview. They know then their goose is cooked.
My B I L is a contractor. He had 13 crews of Mexicans because he could not get anyone that wanted to work. When the recession hit most went home and have not come back. He has 4 crews now and does what he can with them. Can't find any Americans that want to work. He has taught himself to speak Spanish so he can keep his business going. All his guys are documented and pay taxes and SSI.
I refuse to learn another language to speak to someone working here. Should be the opposite. If I decided to move to another country I would not expect them to learn my language to communicate with me.
X 2!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinslabs
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the idea of immigration and the ole' romantic notion that "America is the land of the free and home of the brave" and all of that... and "give us your tired and huddled masses"... I really do get all of that and I try to embrace it... we all do... but this whole assimilation thing is one that definitely needs some clarification and much more oversight on the parts of the empty suits in Washington, as well as with US Department of Homeland Security.
I mean really!!! Again, in San Bernardino California a family of immigrants successfully migrated to the area; took jobs with a government supported or sponsored entity; made friends and acquaintances in and around that environment, which was comprised largely of people who were themselves in need of specialized care, including all of its associates; were able to stock pile weapons, (including weapons of mass destruction) and simply wait until some special event took place (a Christmas party in this case) that brought a sum certain of people closely together; and then they politely excused themselves from among "so called" friends and co workers (who suspected nothing); only to return fully adorned with body armor and sporting automatic weapons; at which point they went about their real agenda of killing as many people as possible in what can only be called a merciless massacre of innocent people NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO SPIN IT.
I MEAN REALLY!!! Does anyone really think the Syrian refugees will perhaps be any better at providing Construction Labor (or anything else) than what some of the other undocumented immigrants have been to the economy and to the country as a whole??? I don't see it or get any of it. I KNOW: LET'S OUTLAW GUNS!!! REALLY!!!
RetireRR, I really wish you well on your new home but I am afraid you made a big mistake letting an inexperienced person build your house. They can build an out building that doesn't have the codes and variables that come with building a residence. Did you check to see any of the other home he has built and where there any problems with them after a year. About a year or two is when a lot of problems will show up in a residence. I do wish you well with your new home. EBQuote:
Originally Posted by RetiredRR
Sounds like a catch 22 guys! You are complaining that there isn't any construction workers to do work so you have to settle for foreign workers to do the jobs, but a lot of them can't speak English. The catch 22 comes because a lot of people don't like the unions and are trying to bust them. Where do you think the schooling for the trade comes from. The unions train the people right out of high school to work the trades. They start them out with an apprentice program and then as a journeyman. I never found language as a barrier to any trade. I have worked with the deaf an dumb and several different nationalities over the years and could communicate with all of them. It does take a lot more patience but gives you a good feeling to help another person learn something new. EB
Some are saying that the Gov is hurting the small business's, but it is the Gov that is trying to keep the small business's going with special programs and such to help them out. EB
That's Liberal bull hockey, Beave .... the Govmnt is killing small businesses with over regulating them and forcing Obamacare on them. Why do you think the larger businesses are taking their $$ and headquarters overseas :bangheadQuote:
Originally Posted by Eager Beaver
The current Govmnt isn't concerned with the small businesses, or wanting them to grow and create more jobs ... that's too much capitalism !! What they want is to put as many people on social programs/assistance as possible, so they can get them to vote for their party in payback for the handouts. Ain't you figured that out yet ?? :Doh:
... cp :kewl
My brothers best man at his wedding was a shop teacher at the junior high I attended. There was about 12 different shop classes there and after that we moved to FL. Auto shop was it, 2 year waiting list. If you didn't attend the local junior high it was tough luck. I have a lot of skills to just do what I consider to be general things. Things that I run into all the time. I know when to call a pro, and that is something good to know. One of my young daughters boyfriends was trying to help me in the front yard and I told him to go out by my shed and bring me the 6X6 stub that was there by the door. He leaves and comes back a few minutes later and asks "what is a 6X6?" I know I could have kicked my chin 'cause my mouth dropped open that far.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinslabs
No education in subjects like this and the absence of a Dad in a lot of houses just furthers that deterioration. Dad taught me two things very early, shut up and hold the flashlight. But i watched him work on a lot of things, and being younger, my brothers also took their turn showing me different things. I knew early on that my oldest brother pointed me in the right direction more than anyone else by putting tools in my hands and letting me make the mistakes it takes to know how to use them.
I don't know where this trend will lead. I know it doesn't bode well for the self sufficiency most of us were taught. The go big or go home attitude some profess pushes some even further away. Everyone wants to be a chief. Higher education is all I hear younger folks talk of. We already are seeing the college graduates unable to find work in their field. Markets are flooded with applicants and as a result the employers are hiring at lower wages. Those that are hired at the lower wage aren't able to keep up the payments on the loans they took out for school. And the snowball keeps rolling down a hill getting steeper all the time. I wonder all the time what my Grandchildren will turn into. What will be there for them. All I can do is tell myself that they learn what they see us do, and do the best I can to show them something different than is being shown by the majority.
Makes me appreciate the Amish here in Indiana. A lot of them still appreciate craftsmanship.
I recently taught the HVAC class at a Career & Technology center as a substitute. I had about 20 students. I figure maybe 20 percent will carry on with it.
Part of it is what we measure a man by now. The admiration for a man who gets dirty,smelly and actually fixes or creates something and works himself nearly to death for a living and is willing to bleed some just does not have the appeal it use to ( not that it ever had a tremendous following.)
How fast you can work a computer,type,use software and programs and be a HUGE yes man and kiss your company's arse is popular right now.
Not as many cowboys out there now who will die with their boots on and be proud to do it.
I don't think we need anymore Lawyers , accountants , financial advisors,or GOD FORBID "BUSINESS CONSULTANTS "right now.
No offense meant to those lawyers,or accountants,financial advisors , or business consultants out there.
Quoted from Skeet
"Dad taught me two things very early, shut up and hold the flashlight."
The other one from Dad was ,hold the flashlight so I can see, not so you can see!
Sadly I see the tiresome whine of the usual crybabies. Walmart has crushed many small businesses, yet I see no complaint about this. The great supporters of small business who post their parrot like screeds are driving their foreign cars to shop for cheap slave made bargains at Walmart while waving American flags.
are you speaking of yourself ???Quote:
Originally Posted by speKzilla
Negative. I avoid Walmart. I support American labor and small local businesses. If you don't too sad for you.
I don't think anyone said anything about not supporting American labor or small businesses !!! except you with that negative post calling people crybabies !!! I think it was a little uncalled for !!! sad for you !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by speKzilla
Perhaps you missed the lament of small business in this narrative as usual it was those liberals. I merely pointed out a reasonable way to support small local establishments by shopping there. Rather than shake ones fist at the government vote with your dollars . Now here is the rub,everyone wants the cheapest price so if immigrant labor is less costly then they will get the job. You must either agree or be willing to pay more. One wonders how true patriots will show their allegiance with shopping. My cynical bet ,go for the cheapest regardless of the true price, then rant on about immigrant labor.
I will concur with what you are saying there !!!:ThumbsUp and the way you explain your opinion it a lot better then calling people crybabies it is not as negative to get the point across !!! :ThumbsUpQuote:
Originally Posted by speKzilla
Don't think you read my post very well. My contractor has built many homes and I did look at several of them and talked with the folks living in them. I don't think I madeQuote:
Originally Posted by Eager Beaver
a big mistake at all. He also builds commercial buildings for office buildings, lumber companies and city halls. I did my homework.
ScreedsQuote:
Originally Posted by speKzilla
1. Long speeches or pieces of writing, typically one regards as tedious to them.
Thread HijackingQuote:
Originally Posted by speKzilla
2. Thread hijacking is the process of replying to an existing thread with a different topic. This is generally discouraged. It is probably much better forum etiquette to start a new thread if you have a problem that is related to an existing posted issue but clearly different. Posts that hijack a serious thread with off-topic discussion or inflammatory remarks should be discouraged.
Do Not FlameQuote:
Originally Posted by speKzilla
3. Flaming, in the most common sense definition, is directing negative, disrespectful, and/or insulting comments toward someone else on the forum. An equally or more negative response, resulting in a cycling exchange of insults is often the consequence. Flaming fellow members I can assure you will not be tolerated for long based upon my own experience with this forum. One should never resort to personal insults and should always avoid sarcastic and patronizing language. Discussions can be productive, but quarreling is and always will be destructive to the purposes of the forum.
Thanks for voicing your opinion and for reforming your outburst, but with all due respect I'm afraid the ship has already sailed as has any sound basis for your argument brother. We all have said the same thing as you time and time again... and for way long enough. The underlying meaning of this thread should be / is to me: "Stupid is as Stupid does" and that all of the things mentioned in this thread have (only) worked to dilute the economy and take the country in the wrong direction as a whole; which leaves only one logical impression: Your argument strikes me the same as it might if you were trying to tell everyone on this thread that the best way to kill a snake is by cutting off small pieces of his tail little by little until it finally kills the whole snake; when everyone here already knows (especially at this point) that the best way to kill a snake is to kill the head and the rest of the snake will die with it.
Yeah, vote alright... that's your best and only sound advice... but I think we would all do much better to vote to kill the head, so the rest of the snake will die too.
The only reason speKzilla's "crybabies" remark hasn't led to editing of his reply post, is because it was not directed at any one or specific members of this site. It was a statement/opinion of generality.
Even so .... let's not get into politics, name calling, or uncivil discourse in this discussion. Otherwise, it will disappear or at the very least end up in the WOT forum.
... cp :kewl
Mods please close this thread! All I was trying to find is whether or not other states have a labor shortage!
Thread closed per OP