Fish disappearing in Greers Ferry Lake
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It's Creekslick's fault. He done thinned the population to much.
They need to start pumping water into the lake or praying for rain rain rain.:twocents
I've fished Greers since it was filled and the lake doesn't fluctuate any more now than it ever has. Populations have always fluctuated with spawning conditions, but the quality of the fish has never been this poor. The AGFC has stocked the nonnative alpha predator that is out competing the native fish for food, with the result that the native bass and crappie are so skinny you "can read a book through the fillets." It might be time to manage the lake for majority of the fishermen, rather than the weekend tourists.
That's right blame me. I won't get on my soapbox on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by cray
Oh go right on , we know you love those hybrids .Devil Icon I think they should really look at stocking less or none after see'n the posts about them eating fry being released in the lake. That lake not near as fertile as alot of others . Too bad the Corps won't fluctuate levels more like Mississippi does their lakes .It should help fish populations .Quote:
Originally Posted by creekslick
Whereas the MS lakes are primarily flood control, GF has functions for flood control, power generation, municipal water supply, and recreation in the river downstream, as well as lake recreation. Lots of folks to satisfy in managing lake levels.
Still Creekslicks fault. He ain't taking out enough hybrids and stripers. Don't know about greers, but talked to some people down at Lake Martin, Alabama and they said these mega schools of whites and hybrids would show up in a cove and eat everything that was eating size in it, then they would be gone to the next cove they could corner food in and do the same thing. I'm thinking about a Bass camp at Greers during peak bass time. I hope that coincides with peak tomato fertilizing time.Quote:
Originally Posted by creekslick
Reckon we could get ''Creekslick'' to host it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by RCC
You bet if everyone agrees to catch all the hybrids they can and make sure they swallow the hook before you bring them in
Mismanaged for many years and the results are before us . I could write a complete book if I got on my soap box about this topic!!
Is this Fact or Fiction? I once heard there was a AGFC Commissioner who owned a fish farm that raised Hybrids, Striper's, white bass, well you know WHO the AGFC is going to buy these fish from Right and stock in Arkansas waters? Got to keep the boss happy, and stock them in our lakes, I think Greers was one of the lakes being stocked through this commissioner owned fish farm and may still be doing it today. I don't know? Just saying I heard this from someone awhile back. Any truth to this story? I have a name but I will keep names out of it. Anybody heard of something like this going on?
If this happened... it's bad Biz on the AGFC's Part.
Ask the biologists , but I was under the impression the AGFC raised their own fish to stock ?
Looks like this is gonna be a high water year.
The guy you are talking about does not stock his fish into the AGFC lakes, I know this because I work closely with him in my job. His fish go to the fish farms raising hybrid striped bass for food. AGFC hatcheries, mainly the one in Hot Springs, does their own HSB spawning.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePro
Needed it during the spawn but it should help .Quote:
Originally Posted by creekslick
Ok I know better than to step in this. No offense to anyone intended. But here it goes. It's the same thing, stop stocking hybrids, and he stops selling fish food. Follow the money and you'll find the motivation behind it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LMBarnett
Here is a stats for yall from a creel survey that ran on Greers from 1988 to 1992. The data that I talk about are averages of the 5 years during the study. It is pretty eye opening. I realize the study is 23 years old and needs to be reassessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmike
Angler Effort by % of total effort:
-Black Bass 61.8%
-Hybrid Striped Bass 14.5%
-Crappie 10.9%
-Walleye 5.7%
Also during this time, 88% of hybrids were harvested.
It is fact that former AGFC Commissioner Mike Freeze does raise these species. It is fiction that he sells them to the AGFS to stock. Like LMBarnett said, the stripers and hybrids that are stocked in Aransas are raised on the hatchery in Hot Springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePro
I personally did not care for the way the story came out. I was interviewed for a pretty long time and they only used the short part that made their story look good. That's what happens when you leave it to the media to tell your story. Lesson learned. If anyone wants to talk about Greers, feel free to call me. Thanks.
Bet there are more Crappie fishermen now and would be even more if it was better . Anytime non native fish compete with natives they should not be there .:twocentsQuote:
Originally Posted by D10
Thanks for your replies D-10 and LM and my apologies if I offended someone. It was suspicious to me that a former comish who own's a private fish farm that raises hybrid's would not have an influence on what fish would be stocked heavily in Arkansas waters through the AGFC at some point in time. With that said I believe and trust in D-10 and LM replies and will gladly drop the subject. Thanks for clarifying this for me. I was just wondering if there was any truth to this.
Here is article from AFGC weekly newsletter, May 6th: I assume Matt had most of the input here:
What is going on with the fish in Greers Ferry Lake?
GREERS FERRY – What is going on with the fish in Greers Ferry Lake? That’s a question Arkansas Game and Fish Commission is getting from concerned anglers over the past year. We know that historically low water years result in a reduction in productivity in lakes such as Greers Ferry Lake. High water years increase the nutrients in the lake through increased runoff and inundation of terrestrial vegetation.
As the flooded vegetation decomposes, nutrients are released into the water column. The nutrients made available are akin to putting fertilizer on your yard or garden. As the lake temperatures warm above 60 degrees, phytoplankton and zooplankton begin to bloom prolifically. These blooms are what cause the water to have a stained or dingy look. These microscopic plants and animals are the base of the aquatic food chain.
The AGFC can artificially induce these productive blooms on our smaller, Commission-owned lakes through fertilization. Fertilizing a lake the size of Greers Ferry Lake is cost prohibitive and there are limitations due to its use as a municipal water supply. This puts the AGFC and Corps of Engineers at the mercy of the weather in trying to maintain adequate lake levels for good fish production. In reviewing the hydrograph for the past 16 years there have had high water events on Greers Ferry Lake in 1999, 2002, 2004, 2008 and 2011 where the lake stayed up in the flood pool until at least July 1. In fact, 2008 (+23 ft.) and 2011 (+18 ft.) were the highest water levels on record with water levels in the flood pool well beyond July 1. This means there’s only had been one high water year in the past seven years. For a high water year to be truly effective it needs to stay up at least 60 days post spawn, or about July 1. The longer the water stays in the flood pool, the more it benefits the lake.
Gizzard and threadfin shad are the dominate forage species in the lake. Threadfin shad seem to be preferred since their maximum size is about 6-inches. Much research has been conducted concerning fish diets and most predators (black bass, walleye, crappie, hybrids) prefer 2 to 4-inch shad, due to the size of their mouth. Since both shad species feed entirely on plankton, they are especially sensitive to plankton densities. The more nutrients available result in better plankton blooms which results in better growth and production of shad. The stronger shad population results in better growth, reproduction and condition for predators such as largemouth bass, crappie, hybrid striped bass and walleye. If high water levels occur every three years in the spring and early summer, sport fish populations remain plentiful. Unfortunately that is impossible to control.
The management tools the AGFC uses on Greers Ferry Lake are: stocking, creel and length limits, and manipulation of habitat. The Corps of Engineers reservoir operating guide does not allow lake elevations to stay in the flood pool very long, unless they are forced by downstream flooding due to their Congressional mandate for flood control and the negative effects if has on their facilities around the lake.
AGFC fisheries biologists have spent considerable time on the lake this winter and spring conducting gillnet sampling and electrofishing. They have taken all three black bass species (largemouth, spotted and smallmouth) to the AGFC fish pathologist for a complete health analysis including viral swabs for the presence of largemouth bass virus. Data for age and growth were collected over the past year for walleye, hybrid striped bass, largemouth bass, spotted bass and smallmouth bass. This data is currently being processed and analyzed. Biologists will be able to compare the growth data to records to determine if low water years are significantly affecting growth. They are also in the process of developing models that predict shad densities based on the hydrograph of Greers Ferry Lake. Preliminary results indicate that there is a relationship between lake elevation and shad production.
Once all of the data is analyzed, a report will be written documenting the impact of the low water years on the game species. In addition to documenting game species abundance, biologists have anecdotally noticed that threadfin shad are virtually nonexistent. This is likely due to the cold winters the state has experienced the last couple of years. Threadfin shad are a subtropical and southern temperate fish preferring warm waters. Water temperatures in the low 40s can cause significant mortalities in threadfin shad populations. In smaller lakes the entire threadfin population can die. Threadfin shad may still exist in Greers Ferry Lake, but their abundance appears to be very low.
AGFC biologists are making changes to the management strategy to reflect the current forage limitation. They are going to start culturing forage (minnows, bluegill and threadfin shad) through the Greers Ferry Lake nursery pond. This year, they will raise bluegill and fathead minnows through the summer and release them in the fall. This will give the bluegill several opportunities to spawn prior to release.
Next year, biologists anticipate stocking threadfin shad in the pond and letting them spawn. In addition, they will not stock any predators until the forage population recovers. This includes black bass species (largemouth, spotted and smallmouth), walleye and hybrid striped bass. Once the forage base recovers, biologists will stock these species in a manner that lends itself to a more sustainable fishery that can withstand a series of low water years.
To discuss this issue with a fisheries biologist, please contact Matt Schroeder, District 10 Management Biologist, at 877-470-3309 ext. 1204 or by email at [email protected].
I appreciate Matt filling us in and I think he is going to be a huge asset for the game and fish and Arkansas but please understand that we have had bad experiences and trust issues with many men before him That wore the AGFC patch on his shirt. I think a lot of the general public has been ignored ,talked down too and been treated as peasants in the eyes of some biologist and game and fish leaders. I have set in on meeting that open to the public and seen officials smirk and ignore peoples concerns that have spent many more hours on their home waters than the entire commission put together . That's why most never go to those meeting anymore ,it is a complete waste of time . We have no say ,they will do what they want to anyway without regard of the public opinion . It has been done many , many times !! No game and fish employee can spend the hours on the water as the die hard sportsman does and we should listen to those are at least consider what they have to say . I hate to inform everyone but every book and all the data in the world isn't correct . It is proven year after year that something that works over there may not work here and so on. You speak to fisherman that spend thousands of hours on Greers ferry and other fisheries yearly and have done so for many , many years and all will tell you hybrids have changed the lake and not for the good but their opinions go ignored . We can all sharpen our pencil to make a report look as good or bad as we want it to , that goes on everyday but it will not change the fact this lake has been mismanaged for years. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but I don't believe for one second that this lake would be in the condition it is today if hybrids were never introduced to the fishery . I know Greers is not as fertile as many lakes but it did produce a world record walleye , almost a state record bass back when they put Florida bass in it ( which never happened again) and a world record hybrid that I can assure you was much older that 5 years old ( We used to be told that was their life expectancy it must have been in one of those college books !! ) now we know that life up to 15 years or more. My entire point really is to please listen to the men and women of this great state who spend countless hours on the water and in the woods . Please don't ignore our concerns and reports we all want to be on the same team . We all want the best for the lakes , streams, and woods. Also look around people will drive lots of miles to chase crappie in the great state of MISSISSIPPI, Bass and Crappie in TEXAS , BASS in MEXICO and Alabama and Florida and even California but I don't see tourist lining up to catch HYBRIDS . Who is pulling this train , who is spending most of the money who generates the tax revenue for this great states Game and Fish . It isn't hybrid fisherman . RANT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there is a guy who can fix the crappie problem on Greers, I think it is Matt. I know when he wakes up and goes to work he is thinking about the crappie problem at Greers and ways to fix it. Let's give Matt a chance to fix it and help if he ask for it. I know it is a large task and he will do what he can for the crappie of Greer's.
I personally think it is a lack of baitfish problem and efforts should be made to get as much bait fish into the lake as you possibly can to make all species and fisherman happy. I also think crappie stocking efforts need to be doubled to counter the predatadion, remember you have allot of Bass, Hybrids, catfish, and walleye munching those crappie. JMO
Well Said Russ ,I agree.
SPECK did it
I'm not sure but I think the same thing and way about the hybrids on lake Degray Lake. Crappie fishing has declined for several years in a row now.
All I can tell you is if you catch one don't release it alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePro
I agree that we have a biologist now that will work to fix the problem. I know him personally to be an avid crappie fisherman who I am confident would like to see this problem fixed and will do all within his power to fix it. The caution is that it didn't get this way overnight, and it will take time to fix it. But if there is a man who can do it, Matt can and will. I think we should wholeheartedly support him and even volunteer to help where we can. Do hybrids reproduce? If not, won't they all eventually die off? Maybe we could increase the crappie stocking and cut back or eliminate the hybrid stocking. Surely the crappie lobby is as big and strong as the hybrid lobby! Just saying'.....
CP you are correct! Know him personal. He is also responsible for the flying carp.
Who ever is responsible for the flying carp may have changed the entire ecosystem as we know it . I don't think we have begun to see what all damage is being caused by their presence in our waters. Another good example of having something here that doesn't belong . Someone should pay dearly for it getting into our public waters. When will folks learn , we are not GOD!
It was your US government that introduced the Flying (asian) carp in the 1960's. The introduction was in keeping with a strong environmental and political mandate of that day to replace the broad use of chemicals with biological controls. For about 10 years, federal and state agencies and university systems strongly promoted introductions, spawning, and nationwide stocking of the grass carp.Quote:
Originally Posted by faithfularcher
Why does that now surprise me ! Story I read was it started here in Arkansas when a local fish farmers ponds were flooded , but never knew if that was true or not. ?
I know that the spread of the asian carps did land in Arkansas 1st, and at the FWS research station. I might be wrong on the years though. I know the grass carp was the 1st on n the station in the 60's and that is where the GC escaped captivity. I can only assume that that is how the silvers got out also.
Since we are on the topic, I watched an old episode of river monsters the other night and forgot about the snakeheads in ark. Has their been anymore or any updates on multiple fish being found in any waters?