So, I up and says to creekslick...

ole buddy how about a good fishing tip for Greers. I've never been there and would sure like to find some good eaters. They don't have to be bigguns, and it don't have to be very many, we would just like to eat some. So Wayne up and says to me. Ole bud, I've known you for a few years, and I know the limits of your catching ability. Fishing Greers ain't for the faint of heart, but I'm gonna be kind and put you on some good eating, and he did. He sent us over to Janssens restaurant, and it was some of the best eating I've ever had, and sure beat pulling the boat over on icy roads and getting out and trying to catch some non-existent fish in an unknown lake.

Enjoyed the visit with you and your lovely spouse. What a beautiful place. It only took me 55 years to get here even though it wasn't but a couple hours away.

Thanks also to Jackie who was going to try to put us on a fish as well. Unfortunately the weather did not cooperate so no fishing happened, but maybe someday we can get back over and pursue the elusive walleye. After all, it ain't always about the fishing, the friendships you make are good in any kind of weather.

Attachment 191738

You can't beat Wayne, Jackie, or Janssen's.

RCC are you a writer or poet in your other life?

Funny thing it was beautiful here this afternoon.

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Originally Posted by NIMROD

Funny thing it was beautiful here this afternoon.

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It got really pretty here too. We drove over to the little red and watched the fish swirl. I should have thrown in a pole so we could have bank fished a little. There was a little eddy with the water curling back upstream just a little. Yep, Carol could have caught one out of there.:biggrin

It was good seeing you and Carol also. now you know where the lake is and where I live you will have to drop over more often. Greers is not loaded with crappie but it sure is a beautiful lake.

Creekslick, why is it that Greer's is low in numbers of crappie ? I have driven past there many times and it sure looks beautiful but being in Hot Springs Village i mainly fish the lakes up that way. I need to try fishing that area.

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Originally Posted by creekslick

Greers is not loaded with crappie.

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That's your fault Gewber. You done caught most of um. [emoji4]

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Originally Posted by pesce

Creekslick, why is it that Greer's is low in numbers of crappie ? I have driven past there many times and it sure looks beautiful but being in Hot Springs Village i mainly fish the lakes up that way. I need to try fishing that area.

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I should have said we don't have the numbers like Conway, Nimrod, or Dardenelle. From what I've heard it's hard to manage these deep clear lakes for crappie. Here's my 2 cents, a lake can only support so many pounds of fish so with all the whites and hybrids we have that takes away the number of pounds of crappie the lake can support. So if you are up here fishing and catch whites and hybrids please keep them and don't throw them back in the lake. Maybe D10 can chime in on this.

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Originally Posted by BigRiverMarine

That's your fault Gewber. You done caught most of um. [emoji4]

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Hush you big Goob

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Originally Posted by creekslick

I should have said we don't have the numbers like Conway, Nimrod, or Dardenelle. From what I've heard it's hard to manage these deep clear lakes for crappie. Here's my 2 cents, a lake can only support so many pounds of fish so with all the whites and hybrids we have that takes away the number of pounds of crappie the lake can support. So if you are up here fishing and catch whites and hybrids please keep them and don't throw them back in the lake. Maybe D10 can chime in on this.

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You are correct Wayne. Greers Ferry is the least productive Corps reservoir in Arkansas due to the geology in the drainage and a few other factors. One of them being the lack of nutrients flowing into the lake from the tributaries. The more nutrients in a lake, the more phytoplankton, zooplankton, shad, and predators. There is only so much shad to go around for all of the mouths to feed. We are in the process of documenting the age and growth, mortality rates of all predators in Greers. Due to several years of not having sustained high water during the spring and summer, it appears that the forage base is down. One thing that we have already documented are the low relative weights of hybrids in the lower part of the lake (below the narrows). Due to this, we are not stocking hybrids this coming year. This wont fix the problem but will not put more mouths in the lake to feed. This will not happen every year because there are just as many hybrid anglers as crappie anglers on the lake. We also suspect that very few people harvest hybrids and whites. We will hopefully be looking into this in the next couple of years. What we can't control is the number o white bass in the lake. We see a ratio of 10:1 white bass to hybrids. There are tons of white in the lake and when no one harvests them, they get thick. Another thing that we suspect is happening, is that hybrids and whites may be reproducing with each other. We have been catching fish that have characteristics of both species. What we really need badly is a high water year or several high water years in a row. It does the lake a huge favor. It would sure be nice if the powers that be would hold the lake a few feet higher during the spring and summer. South Western Power won't go for this though. They are in the business of making and selling power, not boosting the productivity of a lake.

We just need to get the hybrid anglers to keep their catch and stop releasing them back in the lake. If you catch it you have to keep it.

AGFC must have messed up stocking hybrids that will cross with native White Bass. I thought the policy was not to stock anything to mess up native gene pools ? Atleast that is what they said about Saugeyes ?:dono

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Originally Posted by D10

You are correct Wayne. Greers Ferry is the least productive Corps reservoir in Arkansas due to the geology in the drainage and a few other factors. One of them being the lack of nutrients flowing into the lake from the tributaries. The more nutrients in a lake, the more phytoplankton, zooplankton, shad, and predators. There is only so much shad to go around for all of the mouths to feed. We are in the process of documenting the age and growth, mortality rates of all predators in Greers. Due to several years of not having sustained high water during the spring and summer, it appears that the forage base is down. One thing that we have already documented are the low relative weights of hybrids in the lower part of the lake (below the narrows). Due to this, we are not stocking hybrids this coming year. This wont fix the problem but will not put more mouths in the lake to feed. This will not happen every year because there are just as many hybrid anglers as crappie anglers on the lake. We also suspect that very few people harvest hybrids and whites. We will hopefully be looking into this in the next couple of years. What we can't control is the number o white bass in the lake. We see a ratio of 10:1 white bass to hybrids. There are tons of white in the lake and when no one harvests them, they get thick. Another thing that we suspect is happening, is that hybrids and whites may be reproducing with each other. We have been catching fish that have characteristics of both species. What we really need badly is a high water year or several high water years in a row. It does the lake a huge favor. It would sure be nice if the powers that be would hold the lake a few feet higher during the spring and summer. South Western Power won't go for this though. They are in the business of making and selling power, not boosting the productivity of a lake.

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What are the chances of introducing blue back herring as a bait fish in Arkansas lakes? Like Lake Lanier in Georgia???

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Originally Posted by NIMROD

AGFC must have messed up stocking hybrids that will cross with native White Bass. I thought the policy was not to stock anything to mess up native gene pools ? Atleast that is what they said about Saugeyes ?:dono

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It was previously thought that the chances if it happening were slim to none. The only way that it will work is if a male hybrid crosses with a female white. When this happens the fertilized eggs take on the characteristics I a white bass, in that they adhere to things and develops. A stripers eggs need to free float for so many miles to become viable. I have brought up the issue of not contaminating the white bass gene pool several times. Hopefully the gentic samples that we will be taking will shed some light on the subject and make the decision makers think about this a little more. It is my opinion that if we have a rule for walleye and sauger that the same rule should apply to white bass. We shall see if anyone else (administrators) sees this issue the same as me. The stickiest part of the issue is that we have been stocking hybrids in several Corps reservoirs for a long time and we would get some serious push back from hybrid anglers if we were to stop stocking them. Even if it was the right thing to do biologically.

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Originally Posted by warhawk

What are the chances of introducing blue back herring as a bait fish in Arkansas lakes? Like Lake Lanier in Georgia???

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I have been asked this several times by bass fisherman, including my father in law and his buddies. This was looked into during the 80s. Unlike gizzard shad and threadfin shad, blueback herring predate on the eggs of other species. Also they do not tolerate warm water like gizzard and threadfin do. They are not native to the state and as a rule of thumb, it is not a good idea to introduce non native species without fully understanding the consequences. Many introductions become a night mare.

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Originally Posted by D10

I have been asked this several times by bass fisherman, including my father in law and his buddies. This was looked into during the 80s. Unlike gizzard shad and threadfin shad, blueback herring predate on the eggs of other species. Also they do not tolerate warm water like gizzard and threadfin do. They are not native to the state and as a rule of thumb, it is not a good idea to introduce non native species without fully understanding the consequences. Many introductions become a night mare.

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Just seems like some of the blueback herrings lakes, like Lanier, are very similar to lakes like Ouachita. And the herring have been very beneficial tothe fishing on Lanier.

I read where Striper eggs not sticky and must float on current. They do spawn on the Arkansas River. Wiper / hybrid eggs are not as sticky or float like the parent fish of either species..

Hybrid Striped Bass Spawning Habits

Hybrid striped bass, unlike some other hybrids, are fertile. It is oviparous (egg-laying) like the parental species,
Producing eggs and sperm in the spring when temperatures are 60 to 70° F.

However - Hybrid striped bass experience great difficulty reproducing naturally. Eggs and sperm produced by hybrids are usually weak or improperly formed. The same is true of any fry that might be produced by chance fertilization. For this reason, hybrids are considered “functionally sterile,” and their populations are totally dependent on repeated stockings. Natural spawning of hybrids has been verified in a few instances. They may participate in spawning runs with striped bass or possibly white bass. There has been confirmed cases of reproduction in reservoirs that contain only hybrid striped bass.

Most males mature at the age of 1 year ( approximately 10 inches long and 1 1/4 pounds), all are mature at 2 years of age.
A few females are mature at 2 years of age, but all are mature at 3 years. Females produce an average of 160,000 eggs per pound of bodyweight and spawn once a year. Males may spawn many times over the spawning season.

Hybrid striped bass produce sperm and eggs during the spring when water temperature is between 55 to 70° F. Temperatures of 65° to 68° F are ideal for spawning hybrids
Spawning occurs from mid-March through May depending on location and water temperature. Spawning season in any one location usually lasts 4 to 5 weeks. Hybrids have been observed participating in spawning acts in areas that contain clear shallow rocky shoals as shallow as 1 to 3 feet deep.

Females come to the surface during the spawning act with several males accompany her. The males appear to bump and butt the female which may stimulate egg release. Released eggs are immediately fertilized by the males.

The eggs of the hybrids are intermediate in size to those of the parental species. They are semi-buoyant like striped bass eggs, although they seem to be heavier than striped bass eggs. Eggs of this cross are generally not adhesive like white bass eggs and must be buoyed up by the turbulent water flow till they hatch. Eggs hatch in approximately 2 days at water temperatures of 65 to 68° F. At colder temperatures eggs may take over 72 hours to hatch.

This is making the assumption that two hybrids are spawning with each other and not a hybrid male and a white female.

Thanks Creelslick, D-10 for all the long hours the AGFC puts in,Thanks to the COE, for the work.To others unmentioned. As in anything we must work together to make our sport Grow so that we can leave something behind for future generation's. Thanks again to all that have and are still working to Grow our sport.


We can make it happen RCC, Carol.:highfive:fish. Take your shoes off set a speal,Yall come back Now ya here:biggrin:highfive

What about doing a creel survey on the hybrid fisherman to see how many they catch verses how many they keep. All I ever hear they say is they love catching them but just release them because they are not very good table fare. I know for the last 2 years they have not school very much. In my opinion the reason for that is there is no large balls of shad left to chase to the surface.

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Originally Posted by creekslick

What about doing a creel survey on the hybrid fisherman to see how many they catch verses how many they keep. All I ever hear they say is they love catching them but just release them because they are not very good table fare. I know for the last 2 years they have not school very much. In my opinion the reason for that is there is no large balls of shad left to chase to the surface.

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We are hoping to conduct a creel survey in the next couple of years. These are expensive but if done right, a wealth I information can be obtained. I agree about the hybrids/whites not schooling as much. I don't think there is as much shad as 2009-2012. We REALLY could use a high water year.

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Originally Posted by D10

This is making the assumption that two hybrids are spawning with each other and not a hybrid male and a white female.

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Under right conditions looks like any or all 3 could interbreed ? I remember them saying Stripers would not breed in Arkansas and may not other than Arkansas River. I know pure Stripers run up Fouche La Fave River in the spring all the way up to Nimrod Dam.

This is a very good read and very interesting to learn about Greer's, but i would also think if there is a problem with the white fish and hybrid why wouldn't they allow gill nets or a troll net to be used to lower the numbers of the white and hybrid fish and release them into a lake that could sustain such numbers. :twocents

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Originally Posted by NIMROD

Under right conditions looks like any or all 3 could interbreed ? I remember them saying Stripers would not breed in Arkansas and may not other than Arkansas River. I know pure Stripers run up Fouche La Fave River in the spring all the way up to Nimrod Dam.

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There is a slight possibility that several different combinations would yield a viable embryo in the wild naturally. However, the best chance of success in the wild naturally would be a famale white bass x male striped bass or a female white bass x male hybrid striped bass. You are correct, stripers run out of the Arkansas up up the Fourche.

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Originally Posted by pesce

This is a very good read and very interesting to learn about Greer's, but i would also think if there is a problem with the white fish and hybrid why wouldn't they allow gill nets or a troll net to be used to lower the numbers of the white and hybrid fish and release them into a lake that could sustain such numbers. :twocents

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Every lake I know of that has been stocked with hybrid the crappie fish has gone to almost nothing. I grew up in Mississippi fish an oxbow off the river called Eagle Lake. It had some of the best white crappie in it at that time in the whole state. The powers to be decide to stock it with hybrids and now you can't hardly find a white crappie almost all black crappie. The black crappie tend to stay shallow rather than suspend in open water chasing shad. They just can't compete with those eating machines

Sorry RCC about hijacking your thread

I'm enjoying it. This may be the best thread I've ever started:ThumbsUp

Trash fish right up your alley Curtis ? Help the the lake out and send out ''Buckwheat Jigs '' :biggrin