I've heard a lot of negative things regarding ethanol but noticed Crappie Masters had a segment on it. Curious what are the advantages and disadvantages some of you have found.
I know what some of the reputable mechanics who have worked on my boat have given me but wondered how it was working in your boat.
Also wouldn't mind hearing the overall effects of adding ethanol to gas is having in this country.
Personally I don't like ethanol. The small motor mechanics in my town told me that they like it, it keeps them in business. That every spring and summer people bring there lawn mowers and weed eaters to them to do carburetor repairs due to the ethanol gas left in them thru the winter. I have tried running it in my 1991 25hp johnson outboard one time. It ran terrible I went home and poured it out. Now I buy premium non ethanol gas with no problems. I also use premium non ethanol gas in all my small engines (mowers chainsaws weed eaters ect)with stabill and never have any problem in the spring and summer with them. May be a little more costly on one end but saves on the other. Now not saying that I don't use it altogether. I burn what ever is the cheapest in the old ford pickup truck. It loves what ever I can afford to put in it. It just don't stay in it very long.:twocents
This area of the country has been on it for over 15 years now. I use a good water separator in the boat along with Sea Foam in all my motors and have had only 1 problem that may or may not be caused by ethanol.
Just my 2 cents, but I always add Marvel Mystery Oil to my fuel and have never had a problem in chain saws, mowers, or anything else gasoline fueled.
I also use an additive in my diesel fuel in the truck and never had any problems.
I'm pretty sure it's helping the farmers and the small engine repair people. I really can't tell if it runs any better Or worse. I know it will mess up your carbs if you let it get old
Raises cost at pumps. Gets less miles per gallon. It has ruined many fuel lines and small motors. It voids many warranties also.
Most small engine mechanics will tell you that ethanol in gasoline is not a good thing, due to the residue build-up creating carb problems. However, that can usually be alleviated with the use a good fuel additive, of which there are many on the market today. Personally, I use Star Tron in all gas used in my small engines and outboards. Haven't had any problems for many years.
The real "negative", if you want to look at the big picture, is from the farmering end. Way too much corn is being used to make this additive (which really doesn't appreciably yield any benefits to gasoline, environmentally or otherwise). That keeps food prices up and availability down. Farmers are paid more to produce the crop for ethanol, than for the benefit of the consumer. You can juggle and jiggle the stats to create support for most points of view, but I just don't see anything positive about it. JMO! :)
Im a cattle farmer in Arkansas we use to buy our corn based feed for about 7 dollars a hundred pounds now its 7 dollars for 40 or 50 pound bag. The biggest reason is useing corn to make gas.Every kind of meat you buy has went up because of it.I don't blame the corn farmer he's in it to make a living. It seams wrong to waste food to make fuel.
Ethanol is for drunks.
I AM POSTIVE THAT IT IS NEGATIVE
I resemble that remarkQuote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
Originally conceived to reduce bad emissions. Now they are starting to find out some of the emissions from Ethanol are as bad or worse than what they were trying to stop. Only thing it has helped is the pocket books of politicians who have invest in the company's that make it.
The ethanol companies associated with crappie masters are trying to say the ethenol has no adverse effects when running it through marine engines. The is true to a point. The bad thing about ethenol is that it is alcohol and alcohol has a natural affinity to water. So if you store your boat for a week or two without treating the fuel you are asking for problems. On another note. I am all for american farmers but ethenol has raised the price of corn which in turn makes the price of beef five dollars a pound. Overall in my opinion I think ethenol as fuel is a failed experiment at alternative engery. Again just my opinion.
Don't care for it at all, has cost me in carb work and also ate up the pickup line in my gas tank. I understand crappie masters is in need of sponsor dollars and they do lots of good for the sport but i almost fell off the couch when they started up about how good ethanol is for the economy and alternative energy and how it's not harmful to outboards.
IMHO ethonal has negative affects on the environment do to the fuel consumption in making more corn,fertilizer use to make it,woodlands being cleared for more farm land ect.
I once read that it takes 1.2 gallons of deisel fuel to make 1 gallon of ethonal. I do not know if this is true but it is conceivable.
It reminds me of the government subsidizing Dairies in the 80s bankrupting the beef farms as an unforeseen consequence.
IMHO the more the government stays out of are business the better off we are. When the real answer comes for are energy problems it will take care of itself without the government interjecting.
From what I have read it is not cost effective to produce without the tax break and government subsidies.
x2 To all the above RR
I get this question all the time at the store, so I ask my supplier. His response was just about all gasoline sold today contains some ethanol. it depends on where you live how much is in it. Midwest regions tend to had higher % of ethanol in their blends.
I think the 10% is probably ok most of the time as long as you use a fuel supplement. Its hard to find gas that doesn't have at least that much anymore.
I dont like the E85 at all though and wouldn't run it in anything. I have a Ford crew cab 4 x 4. If I dont reset the computer I average around 17.5 mpg. I filled up with E85 last year when prices were alot higher and it was alot cheaper than "regular" gas and reset the computer. It dropped to 14 mpg.
It just doesnt make sense to me to make gas out of something that not only we eat but is also fed to animals that are raised for our food. Figure out a way to make it out of soybeans or something like that, not corn.
Michigan has been 10% since the late 80's. Other places are as high as 15%.Ethonal based fuels are 85%.
In our government vehicles at work, we are required to use e85 in all our vehicles that can run it. The result has been increases budget and over spending due to decreased fuel economy. We now have to limit mileage due to this increase.
Each portion of the US is required to produce a specific percentage of total corn yeild in the form of ethonol. If it is a lean year, they will lower or restrict the number. This was done to curb people from making all their money selling corn to fuel producers instead of graineries. 10 bucks a bushal at the grainery or 15 bucks at the E plant. Doesn't take a math genius to quickly figure out where to take your corn. Hence the reason for the percentage goal or cap.
When the boom happened, many property owners and farmers decided to open and plant grounds that had been fallow for years. This was good in the sense that it upped production for the area but the average guy only made money by increasing yeild and not by selling to refiners as intended.
It effects everything. Some good, some bad. More feed in the fields means more deer. More deer, more car deer accidents which in turn raises insurance rates. Higher yeild, more corn to the e plant, less for the cattle equates to higher food prices.
My family owned a dairy farm. We were only milking about 100 head twice daily. My cousin wanted to close down and switch to beef simply because it costs more to produce the milk than the overal gallon price (almost 80 cents less per gallon). The usda subsidized the farmer to continue to produce milk. Otherwise there would be none. This has been going on for almost 10 years. They begged himto continue. The only way out was his death last year.
Someone gets rich off everything. It just isn't me
You hit the nail on the head arkman. Mive got a GM vehicle as well, never put e85 in it. Might save a buck or two but ill lose it in the worse mileage! I also agree that its dumb to use a food source for fuel.
As most others have said there is no benefit to ethanol in fuel..........It has been proven that it cost much more to produce ethanol than gas, makes everything corn related much more expensive, just another example of our gov. working bass akwards from basic common sense........
Good or bad is open for debate however I have been using it for years in various small engines; outboards and automobiles with no problems I can blame on ethanol. It does attract moisture so if your not going to use the engine for a period of time it's best to use an additive; this applies to all gasoline. It is also a cleansing agent so if you have an old engine that has never seen it and switch to ethanol it will loosen buildup in the fuel system causing problems. Below is a copy/paste from yamahaoutboards.com.
04. Are Yamaha engines compatible with E10 fuel?
All current models as well as most engines built since the late 1980’s have been designed with fuel system components that are tolerant to fresh fuel containing ethanol up to 10% (E10). Outboard fuel systems can still be affected by: water, dissolved gum, varnish, corrosion particles, and dissolved resins that E10 fuel has cleaned from the distribution system and your boat’s fuel tanks
Yep. Ethanol as a fuel source is not profitable and has no benefit other than to put money in some politician's pocket. Why are my tax dollars subsidizing higher grain and higher beef prices? I wish they would end this failed experiment and let the free market dictate what is profitable. Such a waste. If they're gonna turn corn into ethanol it should be selling by the quart jar and not the gallon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlogfish
Gunk in your carburetor did NOT come from ethanol. What do you think the mechanics use to clean your carb, alcohol. Ethanol is version of alcohol. That gunk is crap your gasoline left behind that the ethanol is cleaning out. There is so much miss information out there it's unreal.
The only problem with ethanol is on older engines that still have seals, gaskets, and hoses made with rubber products that ethanol will eat.
Ethanol burns hotter than gasoline, which could also cause problems in older engines, not designed for the higher heat and/or needing a different spark plug.
Ethanol also has a higher octane rating than gasoline. Today it's blended with lower grade gas to achieve higher octane ratings. The only down side to ethanol is it doesn't have the same energy (BTU) as gasoline, thus you need to burn a little more to get the same gas mileage. There is a trade off though, the higher octane provides more power. The other plus is that ethanol cleans out all the crap that gasoline leaves behind.
Yes, when ethanol first came out, it created problems, it didn't play will with the old gaskets, seals, and hoses. No buddy liked lead free gas when it can out either, we had the same statements from the mechanics back then too. Today you can't buy gasoline with lead in it.
As for water in the gas, poppy cock. Your running a motor on water, your sucking in more moisture through the intake than your fuel system can introduce. Plus the air holds up to and including 100% moisture, rain. Your motor runs fine in the rain doesn't it? Air to fuel ratio is commonly thought to be 14 to 1, 14 parts air to 1 part fuel. Which is adding more water to your air fuel mixture? Let's assume that a 10% blend of ethanol does have water in it, how much water do you think it holds? Even at 100% you still have 80% gasoline. The problem occurs when phase separation occurs. It occurs in ethanol blended and non ethanol blended gasoline. Time is the enemy, if your going to leave it sit over a couple months, treat it. I bet most you nay-sayers still change your oil every 3,000 miles too!
One last fact, NASCAR started by back yard mechanics burning alcohol, moonshine. Today's modern race engines still burn alcohol derivatives, methanol, ethanol.
Sunoco Race Fuels | Alcohol and Octane
In short, ethanol is used as a racing fuel. Stop buying the hype from products promoting how bad ethanol is, they are trying to sell you products.
YOU too can make money on ethanol as a fuel, buy stocks of companies the produce it. Look up ADM (Archer Daniels Midland), they use corn for more than just ethanol. Ethanol is a by-product of other products they manufacture. Those other products you eat everyday and don't know it.
One other thing, the world is expecting to use 50+% more gasoline in the coming years. Where do you think that fuel is going to come from? Can you afford $8 a gallon? Ethanol offset's that demand and helps keep the costs down.
We had a massive drought 3 years ago that started with a drought in Russia that pushed up wheat prices here and the other commodities went up with it. As a result of the drought and lowered production, corn and beans reached record highs in price. Because of high grain prices and no pasture farmers sold off their cow herds. There was also a swine disease out break that drove up the price of pork and we are now seeing recovery in both cattle and hogs numbers. While ethanol has helped raise the price of corn, it has also lowered the money that is paid by the government in subsidies. soybeans are a main component in both animal feed and biodiesel the difference in lower fuel milage and lower cost of fuel makes E85 about the same as using regular. It is true that using corn for fuel isn't a good idea and with out the tax benefits and subsidies wouldn't pencil out but don't look for it to go away
No but I can't afford $8 per lb hamburger either. And I fail to see what racing fuel has to do with my truck?Quote:
One other thing, the world is expecting to use 50+% more gasoline in the coming years. Where do you think that fuel is going to come from? Can you afford $8 a gallon? Ethanol offset's that demand and helps keep the costs down.
Yeah, and the people in the segment on Crappie Masters that started this thread weren't trying to sell us anything were they? Well, nothing except ethanol itself. :rolleyes:Quote:
Stop buying the hype from products promoting how bad ethanol is, they are trying to sell you products.
How much is burger these days? Is it 50% cheaper since gas dropped in price by 50%? Nope. IS it any cheaper? Even the cost of transportation should show up in lower costs, have they? Who is keeping the profit now?
No clue what the original poster motive is. Doubt they own stock in ethanol, however they may want to get feedback like this before signing a promotional deal with ethanol producers.
I can tell you this, there are fuel additive companies getting rich by promoting the same propaganda that most have posted in this thread. Sure ethanol has problems, but what has been posted aren't them. Your buying the hype from the wrong companies.
Do I use ethanol in all my motors? NO, In motors made after the 90's yes. My boat motor was built in 1957, ethanol will eat it alive. I have to find and pay considerable more for 100% gasoline.
Racing fuel and your truck.
Simple- your burning racing fuel, just in a smaller percentage. IF gasoline was a superior product racing would be using it. It's not, they get more power out of ethanol than gasoline.
While the price of fuel may have gone down, the price of corn has not. Due to this you are paying $5 a pound for beef. Crappie masters is being sponsored by Missouri corn growers, so tell me who has a motive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanr3
the price of corn has dropped over 50% in the last 18 months and the price of cattle has just been going up because there are less cattle on feed. The price of beef has alot more to do with the number of cattle than the price of corn, the meat packers are buying beef not corn so they really dont care about the price of corn just how much the cattle cost. If you have a lot of cattle the price goes down.
Bottom line... anyone who promotes the use of ethanol as a fuel has some type of personal interest in it........Be it it financial or political.
usually anyone promoting something has a financial interest in it and I don't mean talking about it on here as promoting it, I mean advertising it
CORN: The 2015 corn crop is projected at 13.595 billion bushels, down from a record 14.216 billion bushels last year. Yields are estimated at 166.8 bushels per acre, down from 171 bushels in 2014. Farmers are expected to plant 89 million acres (down from 90.6 million) and harvest 81.5 million acres (down from 83.1 million). Cash prices are seen average $3.50 per bushel for the crop year, down from $3.65.
USDA releases supply and demand estimates for major crops | AgriPulse
2013 World use.
In the monthly WASDE report released on November 8, the USDA's World Agricultural Outlook Board estimated that 4.648 billion bushels of corn were used to produce ethanol and co-products during the 2012-13 marketing year. That estimate is 371 million bushels less than the estimate for the 2010-11 marketing year and 352 million less than estimated use during the 2011-12 marketing year. Domestic ethanol production declined from an estimated 13.796 billion gallons during the 2011-12 corn marketing year to an estimated 12.899 billion gallons last year.
Corn Used for Ethanol Production | farmdocdaily.illinois.edu
"The mandate increases corn prices by about 25¢ per bushel," Babcock says.
What Happens to Corn Prices without the Ethanol Mandate? | Agweb.com
Ethanol raises the cost of corn about a quarter per bushel. Bushel costs about $3.50-$3.65. The US alone produced 14.216 billion bushels last year. The corn that went to ethanol produced about 12.899 billion gallons. 4.6 billion bushels of corn made 12.899 billion gallons of ethanol. Not chump change. Are you willing to pay the Saudis for another 12.899 billion gallons of gas? Or would you rather pay a farmer in the US for it?
I get the mantra. Ethanol is bad, gasoline is good. :banghead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanr3
Ethanol is really good for a couple things that come to mind.............but fuel ain't one of em.....:cheers2
Never had a problem using it in small and large engines....If any one believes that producing ethanol hurts farmers and food markets, you're wrong. Ethanol production actually creates food products, more than you can imagine!!! How else do you think corn syrup, corn starch, maltradextrins, glutton meal, corn meal, etc are made? They coproducts of ethanol production. Ethanol from corn is a 0 waste process.
the biggest by product of ethanol is ddg's used in animal feed. not much in the way of corn syrup is left over and corn meal is made from ground corn not from leftovers from ethanol production, the use of corn in ethanol pushes up the price of corn in the local market where there is a ethanol plant so it does hurt livestock farmers that have to buy their feed,
Wasnt ethanol supposed to be a renewable fuel source that would be cheaper than foreign produced oil? Well it seems since they started producing it Gasoline hasnt come down in cost, if anything has gone up, and food cost especially meat have skyrocketed. I am in the landscaping business, and it has been hard to find wheat straw because all of the farmers are raising corn, also We raise egg chickens, layer mash has doubled since we last raised them 7 or 8 yrs ago, also My small engine mechanic is pulling his hair out repairing fuel deteriating fuel systems, He advised Me to only purchase high octane gasoline, and that the 87 octane ethanol fuel is probably only 80 octane and that the short lived ethanol is supposed to make up the remaining octane percentage. So if anything We all are paying for the cost saving renewable fuel that Our politicians feel so warm and fuzzy about!
Anyone who has bought corn over the last 10 years knows these numbers are false. Ask any mechanic about detioration due to ethanol in 2 stroke engines. Look at the Evinrude Etec warranty which is voided if ethanol fuel is used. The United States has plenty of fuel wells capped off but instead imports from those Middle eastern countries. Ethanol has nothing to do with it. Corn syrup and corn meal have all been made before ethanol fuel. The main by product is animal feed which stinks awful and most animals care less for it. I couldn't even get wild hogs to eat it. Ethanol is a joke as a fuel and helped put this country in a recession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanr3
Actually the main byproduct is starch...post process feed products are only a small amount of the coproducts and all are mixed with whole grains before sold to consumers. Ethanol has been around a long time and not many things that you eat, wear or touch is exempt from the process. There's a lot at stake when you see the big picture. The ethanol industry keeps farmers from going broke, period. Many of your larger producers also own the logistics firms which move the raw and finished materials, grain elevators, feed mills, etc.