Printable View
With bass, I understand the reasons for restricted daily limits and personal decisions to catch and release. But what about crappie? I see pictures of large bags of crappie taken often on this site and wonder if c&r should apply to most lakes even where crappie are abundant.
It probably depends on the lake, fish population, and other circumstances. I have a lake place where the panfish population, including crappies, consists of nothing but small fish. There are too many fish competing for food and space and so all of the fish are small.
To many fish equal little ones.
Most people don't get limits every time. The people that can don't keep a lot because they can get them any time. I fish 2or3 times a week and I keep fish for myself 2 times a year but I have a lot of friends that I give fish to and I C. and release Most of the time.Saturday we caught 35 all were released . Most of the picture you see are the better days people have not the every day.
Most states have limits in place to deal with the capacity of the waters to produce vs the mortality rate (natural & angler driven). Even the C&R policy of the "Bass guys" has come under fire & scrutiny as the best management technique for more & larger Bass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoonminnow
Many people say release the big ones (Crappie) because they have the genes that produce big Crappie. I disagree with that assumption, based on the fact that the previous generations of offspring would have the same gene pool component ... but, just be a year younger than the latest generation (& subsequently be smaller). Female Crappie don't pick an alpha male of their species ... they distribute their eggs among several different males. The Crappie that get big, don't do so simply from their genetics ... they are just the lucky ones that don't get eaten by predators, and/or happen to inhabit waters that can sustain them or facilitate rapid growth.
IMHO ... size limits ARE a form of C&R, allowing anglers to take fish "above" a certain size, while releasing those that don't (yet) qualify as being of a harvestable size. Those size limits (& the creel limits that often accompany them) are set in accordance with the capacity of those specific waters they're intended for, by the Fish/Wildlife biologists, so as to maximize the anglers harvest ... while keeping the upcoming generations safe, so they too can reach harvestable size.
It's also my belief that ... should C&R be mandated for Crappie, eventually the waters containing them would be over populated, resulting in old but small fish (stunted growth). That would probably result in lower numbers of anglers pursuing Crappie, which would result in lower harvest rates ... and, well you see where that's going :Doh:
Just my :twocents ... FWIW
... cp :kewl
Lets spin this around a bit. There is 33000+ members on this forum. If everyone was catching limits there would not be a big enough server made to hold all the tailgate pics. Sure there are a bunch that can consistsntly catch limits, but not many can say they can limit out every day no matter the conditions. And that is just this forum where we are all ate up with the Crappie desease. So in reality even though there seems to be a bunch kept it will no where near keep up with them prolific breeders in a large body of water, and quite possibly even a small body of water. If your really curious go to a local ramp during a peak season and take a survey and see how many really do limit out.
And some of us have NEVER caught a limit (yet)!:biggrin
I dont like to clean more than 10 at one time, I only keep fish in the winter time mostly, we caught 90+ tuesday, I went today by my self caught 40, all were released, I hadn't cleaned a crappie since march.
Didnt I read that Crappie have 20,000 plus offspring each Spring? in My local lake it has been estimated that it takes a Crappie 6yrs to reach the 9"+ limit that the lake has. The DNR keeps a close eye on populations and sizes thankfully.
Quote:
Those size limits (& the creel limits that often accompany them) are set in accordance with the capacity of those specific waters they're intended for, by the Fish/Wildlife biologists,
Unfortunately there are blanket rules that cover all waters in NYS. At one time I asked the head DEC office (in writing) how they arrived at the 25 crappie, 10" size limit. The response was vague and non-scientific or, in other words, not supported by shock surveys or angler surveys across the state.Quote:
DNR keeps a close eye on populations
My local private lake has thousands of stunted crappie and no survey has been done there. Very few anglers catch or keep crappie in that lake, so for the life of me I can't see the state limit being of any value. And there are many lakes and ponds like it.
Oh, I almost forgot. The text letter sent from the head office stated that groups of Asian anglers upstate had at one time a commercial enterprise, selling caught crappie to restaurants. Funny though but I've never seen an Asian fishing for crappie in my 60 years of life!
If your really curious go to a local ramp during a peak season and take a survey and see how many really do limit out.[/QUOTE]
Good point! I rarely see a big mess of nice crappie at cleaning stations even during the spawn. Some like to show they've caught a good mess of fish and I enjoy seeing them. Many more are very secretive and don't want any unwanted attention to themselves. It's understandable why guides do it because it promotes their business but overall, there's just not that many whacking them day in and day out. But when they do, I'm all for them sharing a picture they've taken. A few details without giving too much away can sometimes help too.
From April to June I can get a limit most days weather permitting. Like someone said I don't like cleaning that many . I throw most back and I don't see many people catching limits as slab said. Also I fish a 100 acre lake and keep a limit every time and it's still over populated so I don't think you can over fish most lakes. I think you can over fish one spot if you fish it too often. Just my opinion doesn't mean any more than anyone else.
I'm a firm believer that the crappie population in any lake can be adversely affected by over-harvest. I've seen it time & time again where a lake, which use to consistently produce 1-2 pound crappie now only produces fish less than half that size and quite a bit less frequently to boot. Since there is no limit or slot on crappie here, the "bucket brigade" goes into any area producing and over a few short weeks, decimate the population. It takes many years for crappie to grow to a decent size up here, due mainly to the long winters.
So over harvesting, here anyway, is a problem. Which is why I tend to post my successful trips here, instead of a local fishing forum. It's unfortunate that a selfish few ruin it for the many. I'm a firm believer in "selective harvest" (In'Fisherman concept). And I have no problem with folks taking just enough for a meal or two. It's the bucket brigades that I'm opposed to. JMO! :)
That's the other side of the coin where I live. I fully support DEC enforcement of all rules and regs, but unfortunately the agency is underfunded and the officers are spread very thin (unlike PA where one pops up if you sneeze). One of the premier crappie lakes I fish has anglers bringing out large buckets of crappie (well over 50) of all sizes, including other species. It doesn't happen all the time, but who knows how often? The employees who rent the boats can not enforce DEC law because boat renters think they are entitled to keep whatever they catch and could be belligerent.Quote:
the "bucket brigade" goes into any area producing and over a few short weeks, decimate the population.
Unlike lakes in warmer climates that have a longer growing season, eventually larger fish will become scarce because schoolies are easy to load the boat with and fish swim together of the same size creating opportunity.
Not an easy problem to correct where I live: on the one hand lack of enforcement do to underfunding/ on the other, fishing regs that don't fit. Forgive me for quoting this, but its' so applicable to NYS:
One political factor that strongly affects DEC laws are the animal right groups that would prefer a no kill law for any wild life. Even though fishing and hunting fees bring in a massive amount of state revenue, wild life regs are usually not a priority when it comes to making promises pols won't keep - they know who has the deep pockets they can rely on. Seen it time and time again!Quote:
After all the studies and facts are compiled the biggest deciding facters are and will always be, what is most popular with the voters. Not what's best for the wildlife.
Ya think common sense would set in with the bucket fishermen, but common sense seems to be in short supply anymore. Of course those are the guys that probably complain the most when they go out and cant catch anytng anymore.
I only keep what I can eat, everything else goes back. And my wife doesnt really like fish (yet) so there really isnt reason to keep that many. Last time I kept anything was a trip last month to Wisconsin......and it was only 9 Bluegill. Everything else was CPR.
What I also don't understand is keeping a large bunch of summer, warm water crappie which taste like crap!:dono
Here in upstate ny, so us and port bays...since the state size limit to 9" and creel limit of 25 fish, it took a while but the crappie fishing has improved 100%. I wasn't too happy at first because 8-8 1/2" fish made decent filets and now the 9" were harder to find. Jump ahead now I've caught many 11- 141/2" fish. Caught my limit several times but now I choose not to anymore, usually 10 then stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonminnNY so us and port bay
Years before there were many fishermen that would keep way too many and many sold fish daily, now they're not supposed to sell crappie. I believe that the crappie fishing is better now because of the regulation. There maybe some areas that need variations of regulations though I can only speak for places I fish ie sodus, port bays, barge canal system, black lake
Just as most have said I get up to around 10 and that is my mark. When I first started I often dreamed of catching that golden limit. When my skills got honed in I kept my limit on more than one occasion. That got old and put me where I am now. Once I knew I could go out and catch enough for the meal at hand stocking up the freezer had little appeal to me. Nowadays the only time I keep a limit is when I am taking someone out who does not get to go all that often.
Ima good fisherman, but I don't brag abut how good I am.:rolleyes:
Billbob said you were pretty good but I dont know about that:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
Billbob is honest Abe.
The simple answer is to never keep more than you intend to eat. Other times (when you don't need them), toss them all back. Why kill them just to show them off???
Ima gonna stuff my stockings.
Panfish are prolific breeders! The lakes I fish are notorious for getting over populated easily. I have made it a habit to keep any "eater" size fish I catch, I let the bigger trophy size fish go. Perch for instance, anything over 12" I put back. I know I'm going to catch a ton of 8-11" fish that are perfect eating size. The same goes for crappie, I keep the 8-12" fish any thing bigger or smaller I put back. Jm2c
That depends where you fish, many lakes in Arkansas are overpopulated with Crappie. The AGFC just approved raising the limit on most lakes here in the north-west part from 20 to 30.
We can't keep any crappie under 9" here. I could catch a limit if it wasn't for that fact. 11-12" seem to be "BIG" around here. I occasionally come home with a couple slabs in the 12" range, but it is rare for me. I will say I have caught bigger crappie farther south in the state, and out of the Ohio River. I feel like I should be throwing anything 12" or bigger back to help the population size, but I like to eat em!
That's the irony of the whole question of C&R ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltine
Do you keep the smaller ones & let the bigger ones go (to make even MORE little ones)
OR
Do you keep the bigger ones & thus leave more baitfish for the smaller ones to eat & get bigger
:scratchhead :dono
... cp :kewl
That kind of depends on the predator population and food chain. Larger fish eat smaller fish or whatever they can swallow. My local lake has pickerel, bass, large white perch and some large crappie and sunfish. Do larger predator fish prefer larger prey? If so, a larger bigger predator population can be just as detrimental to older panfish in numbers destroyed as anglers.Quote:
Do you keep the bigger ones & thus leave more baitfish for the smaller ones to eat & get bigger
I fear that's the problem with the stunted gills and crappie at another lake - too many large fish devouring too many +3 y.o. panfish. Smaller fish will always be targeted by slightly larger predator fish, which includes crappie, and there will always be a larger number of young fish in a body of water closer to the year they were hatched.
But one thing is for certain: some type of survey is necessary for any body of water that may need regulating. Slot and size limits can't be applied to crappie as they are to bass because smaller crappie are of no use to meat anglers. Once a special regulation is put into effect, it would need another survey years down the road to make sure it is still needed. Very few states have the resources to do surveys on thousands of lakes and general regulations can be the least effective means (or do worse) at protecting fish.
A perfect example in NY: two anglers can keep 50 crappie per day in a body of water fished five days a week which results in 250 crappie taken in five days. Multiply 125 fish per angler by 15 anglers x five days and that equals 1875 fish over 9" (no one keeps smaller fish). Remember, that number is for only 5 days, not one week!
Depending on lake acreage and cover and spawn success, that can mean the decimation of an older fish population in just a few years in smaller waters. One lake I fish had most weed cover striped by an overpopulation of hybrid carp introduced by home owners. Now there are far less decent size crappie than ever before and stunted fish are the norm; and this doesn't even take into account the overpopulation of prolific white perch which can be very bad for other fish species.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrappiePappy
How about a slot limit like with redfish? Throw back the big and small and keep the "in-betweeners".
I think that's what a lot of our members are doing, but in a self-imposed manner. State imposed slot limits haven't always worked, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by deathb4disco
The "irony" of the situation is also dictated by the ability of the particular body of water to produce fish of size, in numbers that can satisfy the angler population ... when we all know that once a body of water gets that "Slabs in numbers" reputation, it's going to get even greater angling pressure. And seeing as how many of the better Slab producing waters are not managed simply for Crappie, and the cyclic nature of the fish vs weather/water condition issues, it's a situation that is mostly out of mans control ... and the best we can do is occasionally tweak the limits (size/numbers) to satisfy the greater percentage of the angling population. IMHO
... cp :kewl
Ima gonna stuff my freezer too.
Let me really light your jets about this. In my part of Florida, we have 'winter guests' from Canada who used to come down in a motor home and park at the ramp area for a week during the spawn. They had a deep freeze set up in the motor home. Four of them would catch fish all day for a week and put them in the freezer daily. Sometimes, during the spawn you can catch 2-3 limits a day per man if you want, if you find the concentrations of fish. The first year, we didn't realize what was happening. The second year, we let them catch fish for four days and then called the Wardens. FL law says you can have 1-day limit on the water and 2-days limit in possession OFF the water, per person. I never did get the final total of fish, but the visitors lost the motor home, boats and tackle, got 60 days in the County jail and the fines were something like $3600 per man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_crvGziPn3gQuote:
Originally Posted by Stickmarsh