Is a IM8 rod more sensitive than a IM6, everything else (brand, length, etc.) being the same? And if "IM" doesn't influence sensitivity whats it for? And what makes a rod sensitive?
thanks
Fair Weather
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Is a IM8 rod more sensitive than a IM6, everything else (brand, length, etc.) being the same? And if "IM" doesn't influence sensitivity whats it for? And what makes a rod sensitive?
thanks
Fair Weather
IM is the density or modules of graphite. Yes a IM8 is very much lighter and more sensitive. The higher the modules the lighter and more sensitive. Guides also make huge difference.
You should check out the line of outlaw crappie rods at WWW.fishoutlaw.com
More guides=more contact from the line to the blank = more sensitivity. Also keep in mind a soft tip allows the tiny jigs to be cast with better accuracy.
Just keep in mind that one thread of IM8 make the whole rod IM8 (the rest of the rod could be IM3). More important is how the rod is constructed (thickness/thinness of the graphite, taper, etc) than what IM number the graphite is or is not. Also when a rod is just a blank it is at it's most sensitive state, everything additional added takes away sensitivity (excessive guides, epoxy, thread, paint, grips etc all take away from the rod's ability to transmit vibration (ie sensitivity).
i agree with crappieking i use the 7'2'' outlaw crappie pole im7 graphite. the rod seems to magnify the vibtation as is transmits up the rod. it has alot of backbone too. ive got some im7 and 8 rods i paid alot more for and they feel mushy after using my outlaws. thnx for all the good information in this topic.
So can a "mushy" or "limber" or "floppy" rod be sensitive? That's one reason I brought this up. I'm feeling the bite better on medium or medium lite rods, not lite rods. This goes against the conventional wisdom of what the rod makers call "crappie rods". Just thinking. Just saying.
fair weather
im by far not an expert on the subject but i watched a vid by jr oldham the owner of outlaw rods and he talked about getting the finest graphite he could get in the world out of japan and he talked bout how the special graphite blend they use gives it sensitivity and backbone and when i put that with what bfish says it kinda starts to make sense to me. bfish am i correct in saying that a lesser im rated rod can be more sensitive than a higher im rated rod if its constructed from a blank using higher quality graphite blend. its not as much the rating or the power as it is the quality of the graphite blemd and the way the rod is built ( how many and type of eyes, type of handle, quality of the cork vs eva for handle and ect.) sorry if im rambling but im trying to figure this out too.
IMHO ...
One has to take into account what "sensitivity" means to them. In the case of the IM6 lite action rods with a parabolic bend ... some may say sensitivity may be in the visual sense. In other words, it bends easier so you "see" the rod tip move. Whereas in the higher modulus IM6 (or higher), and especially those with fast action tips, the sensitivity is more in the "feel".
The action of the rod can increase or decrease the sensitivity as much as the amount of graphite, quality of graphite, or the IM rating number indicates.
Case in point :
My 7' Sam Heaton is IM6 w/parabolic bend (slow action) ... only moderately sensitive.
My 7' Bionic Blade is IM8 w/med action ... very sensitive (esp. when used with braid).
My 6'6" ESP is IM6 w/extra fast action & vibration enhancing disc's within the handle, that are around the blank & touching the inside of the graphite handle ... extremely sensitive.
Sensitivity only matters when using "rod in hand" techniques, like casting/swimming jigs ... and in most of those cases I'm line watching, so sensitivity is less of a factor. But, even when a bite occurs on semi-slack line, I can still "feel" most bites when using the Bionic Blade or ESP rods. Not so much when using the Sam Heaton with this method.
... cp :kewl
thnx pappy for the info. one thing i did try that made a difference was how i hold the rod. im still have to remember to do it but when a grasp the fore grip if i roll my hand so that my index finger is on top of the grip and i extend my index finger and lay it on top of the blank i can feel very light bites alot better. i bass fished for many years before i started trying to learn how to crappie fish and learned to watch my line so that part comes naturally but the rest of it is like learning to fish all over again. i get frustrated because i dont usually keep up with some the really good crappie fishermen in my club but im slowly learning by absorbing everything i can on here and just getting out there and trying what i've learned.
O.K.! I'm getting somewhere, I'm learning about what type of sensitivity I'm looking for.
Fish with me a bit. We're on Cumberland, Wolf Creek, near the old location of Alligator 1. The fish are on the bottom, say 12'. The bite is lite. The bottom is covered with old driftwood and other cover. I've sank my weedless 1/32 grub into the debree and slowly. slowly dragging it along. If you have slack in your line you will miss the bite so I keep my braid tight, but I've cast out and let it sink. I'm not vertical jigging. I don't watch my line in this situation because there is no slack. I can feel every bit of wood I drag over and as I tighten up on resistance I'm processing "Is that wood my jig is dragging against or do I feel a bit of "give" as in a crappie has picked it up or sucked it in?"
I can catch this fish some of the time and I'm looking to increase my percentage. I'm trying to pin down the specifications of a rod that will detect this bite. The length, IM, brand, etc.
thanks
fair weather
ps I'm rained out today but this is almost as good as actually fishing!
G Loomis IMX or GLXQuote:
Originally Posted by fair weather
Problem solved.
Can't really tell you what rod to use, as what I might recommend may not perform or feel the same for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by fair weather
I can tell you that even with my two most sensitive rods, I'm a line watcher when casting 1/32 & 1/16oz jigs. But, I'm also doing more swimming of those jigs, than dragging them across bottom cover. I still line watch when using the ESP/mono outfit, even though I can still "feel" the tic of a light pickup. But, on the Bionic Blade/braid outfit, I found out that if I have a splitshot sinker on the line about 8" above the jig ... those same lite "tics" are felt as serious "thumps", and unmistakable Crappie strikes ... so, I don't have to even be looking at the line to know when a strike occurs.
In your "made up scenario" ... I may possibly tip that jig with a minnow. And being as the fish are at 12ft, I'd probably use a 1/16oz weedless jig. I probably wouldn't try & crawl the jig along the bottom, either. Most likely I would swim the jig along until the line came into contact with some of the bottom debris, lift the jig up until it came into direct contact with the object, and then in one continuous motion let the jig drop 6" & then lift the jig 12" ... basically bouncing the jig over the object ... not dropping the rod back down after the 12" lift, but letting it swing back towards me after clearing the object. I get hung up less often doing this, and I've had numerous occasions where this procedure has elicited a hit ... even after having repeatedly swam the jig across the same spot, but never having made contact with anything. I refer to this technique as "bowing to the jig".
The last reply in this thread : http://www.crappie.com/crappie/showt...ghlight=bowing ... explains the technique in a little more detail. Plus it quotes my Vertical Casting article ... which is another method I employ, that you might find interesting. Both have been fairly productive for me, and I hope they are for you as well.
... cp :kewl
great info, thanks
Crappiepappy Do you have the model number of your Bionic Blade handy?
thanks
Yeah .... it's BNX70MSQuote:
Originally Posted by fair weather
But, it's a old rod from back in my Bassin' days. I think the closest available one now is model number BNB70MS 1pc 7' IM8 Med Action 1/8-1/2oz lure weights 4-12lb test line
The major differences I can see in mine & the new model are ...
the new model has a hook keeper & a hump in the cork handle (what they call a PowerHump Grip)
My BB rod, paired with a Shimano Spirex 2000 & PowerPro 10/2 braid, may be overkill for general Crappie fishing applications ... but, since I mostly use it to cast Roadrunners & Whirly Bee's, with only occasional duties as a jig casting rod, I feel that it's serving me well. I can almost always pull a snagged lure free, and I don't even "have to" set the hook when casting RR's & WB's. I just keep reeling and sweep the rod back about 1' and let the rod's power & the braid's no stretch qualities do the hook setting.
... cp :kewl
I agree 100%. Like you I enjoy my 7'2" and 10 foot Outlaws. It's unfortunate that nobody in the free world uses their 14 footer. Recently I asked for opinions of the 14's on the main board and not a singe person had a nice thing to say about the 14. Not even their pro-staff. My guess is they priced themselves out of the market when trying to compete with other excellent rods already in the space for 1/2 the retail price.
I believe you are confusing slow and moderate action rod (aka "crappie rods") vs faster action (and heavier powered) rods. Power is the weight it takes to load the rod (for casting). For most crappie application you want a lighter powered rod (also keep in mind there is no standards as to what weights are light or medium. A light shark rod is much heavier than a heavy bass rod.) Compare the action, then figure out the power based on what lures weights you use most often.Quote:
Originally Posted by fair weather
hmm not really. Sensitivity is the ability to transmit vibration. It also can be measured as recovery rate (how fast it takes to return to straight position after a load has been removed). Some people misuse sensitivity to indicate that rod is slow (CrappiePappy touches on this in his post).Quote:
Originally Posted by sacriverjim
Manufactures use IM as a marketing word, the numbers are really broad and don't have much application to rods, IMO. However the IM number does indicate stiffer graphite. How the rod is constructed (where the flags are placed, taper, wall diameter etc) plays a much bigger role in the rods characteristics than what IM number it has. A lower "quality" graphite, if constructed well can have better characteristics (sensitivity being one of them) than a higher quality graphite that is not made with proper taper/wall thickness etc. Also the higher quality graphite can be mixed with lower grade materials which also can (but not necessarily) affect performance.
While this video doesn't touch on IM, it does a good job (especially the visuals) of explaining action and power:
http://youtu.be/S9EnmzLErj4
Stan,Quote:
Originally Posted by yikess
I saw your post asking about the 14fter but didn't respond because I've never held one. I do however have both the 8'2" & 12' Outlaw rods. The 12fter which I have yet to use is definitely more whippy than a 14' BGJP. So I would think the 14' would be also. I do really like the 8"2" rod as it has plenty of backbone and isn't whippy at all.
I would look for a spinjig rod in fast to extra fast action. Length is up to you, I like longer for casting distance but shorter for more vertical presentation (and slightly better transmission of vibration and lighter overall weight). For power, I am guessing since you didn't mention jig weight but look at Light, Mag-Light, Medium Light.Quote:
Originally Posted by fair weather
In addition to what deathb4disco recommend (good choices), I would also look at StCroix Avid and above series, Falcon, and Fenwick Eagle GT and above series (Fenwicks tend to be a little slower on their ratings, ie extra fast is more like a fast).
I have a guy here in paris who makes custom rods out of high grade blanks you pay a little more but the rod he made me weighs 3 .8 ounces 7 ft long and the reel i have on it is a pflueger trion ultralight reel and 4 lb line i can hum a 1/64 of a ounce jig head a good 40 ft just the jig head and lure alone i paid 100 for the rod which for the blank was 65 alone not just the time he put into it so the blank alone costed more than all my combos i have brand new lol i love that rod
Yep, me too. I didn't want to take your thread sideways, but that's why I use carbon fiber rods now instead of graphite or glass. They are - very - light weight and super strong. I go against conventional wisdom too I guess. I like a much stiffer rod than most. I don't like whippy rods at all. I agree with you that you feel the bite (and when it is not a bite) better and I have much better control of the fish. I rarely use a net and mostly just swing them in. Too me it's quicker and have less chance of them getting off.Quote:
Originally Posted by fair weather
These are crappie from last weekend. The rods in this pict are carbon fiber with a graphite/fiberglass tip. To me it's the best of both worlds. My buddies call them the 'helium' rods. (I also use Josh's carbon fiber rods... but I didn't want to be crucified for saying that.)
:biggrin
Good luck! I've probably been through 20-30 different kind of rods searching for 'just right' for me.
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/w...psdcbe5e23.jpg
Dang good crappie