Update on 859ci HD

Went to the water with notes from the manual and the HB forum. Took some time but I started in 12 fow with a 1/16th and BG. After getting it set I wanted to see what it would do deeper...changed over to a 1/8th for a faster drop and liked what I saw.

Did notice that a few settings can really make the whole thing go haywire fast. The 83khz sen. and the max depth was two of them. Took over a hour of playing but it was worth it.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse60619cf.png

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps48573059.png

Looks good slabbacks...

:ThumbsUp

Rickie

:ThumbsUp

83khz???????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don G

83khz???????

---

The 83kHz HB curse is only affected by the SI units that are running software versions demon-ized with 360 software...

The DI units have no code related to 360 because DI units cannot run the 360...

Rickie

Don

I found that I liked running 83/200 and could tell more of what was going on under the boat. The jig and fish were nice and bright in the 200 beam and if the boat drifted off you could still pick up the jig in the 83 beam, just as a different color.

Also by knocking out some of the top water column and (depending where the fish were related to the bottom) some of the bottom water column it gave a zoomed in view of my jig and fish...much easier to see. I have some recordings of me fishing but HBPC don't come close to giving the 859 justice as to what was seen on the screen.

Rickie

I believe it was you that requested this shot. Was going to get one while the boat was moving yesterday but forgot, was wanting to see if EST POS error would reduce while under way. I can say that the waypoints I transferred to the 859 from my other bow unit worked great and the 859 put me right on them.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps37245a09.png

OK, from the above posts, can I be sure that the 859 will be clear of all the Gremlins that HB is experiencing from the 200/83 2D?

Also, slabbacks, did you get any interference from the TM? Which TM do you have? I am a little gun shy of this since I had so much trouble with the 898 on my Terrova.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Don I read a lot on the issues others were having and this was a main reason I never updates out of 6.4 and made me really think about the 859 (to get or not to get). I then started seeing where the glitch seemed to be only be in the new units coming out geared for the 360. I took a chance and I have to say after getting it tuned in I really like the outcome. Dont get me wrong...that first day I was wanting to ship it back. Instead I went through the CD and took a ton of notes, reset the unit and went to the lake.

The picture is now clear and does what I'm looking for. If you want I'll get a vid next time out of the unit. Is their something in particular you are want to see? Give me a list and I'll put it together.

----------------
TM
I had no effects that I saw running my trolling motor. That first day I had a fit with the screen but after asking Q's on here and some other HB forums I'm with, I narrowed it down to turning SONAR OFF on the 898 at the console. I run a kota foot control 5 speed so I can't help much for Terrova.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rnvinc

The 83kHz HB curse is only affected by the SI units that are running software versions demon-ized with 360 software...

The DI units have no code related to 360 because DI units cannot run the 360...

Rickie

---

We have updated info on this from a member at BBC that discussed this very problem with the HB reps at the Classic Expo...

QUOTE...in part:

Apparently the issue isn't caused by the 360 code. When they were working on the 360 integration they decided it was time to implement some changes in the SI code they had been working on. The intent was to give better SI images. This was not so much for the 360 as for the straight SI. They could see there could/would be problems in the 2d but decided that most folks buy an SI unit more for the SI than the 83 khz side and few users, percentage wise, use it much anyway. There is no doubt in hind-sight they see it had more impact then they thought. Going forward the code will remain the same because the SI images are better. I didn't come right out and ask but I figure the new units have something to do with this also.

The bottom line is the code is NOT going back to the 6.49 days. There will also NOT be two versions of the software.

BUT ..... there will be a fix....... sort of.

It was explained to me that when the code was changed for the SI it changed the amount of channels that the unit sent/received. The units can only receive three channels by design and hardware limitation. Once the code was changed if you turn on 83 khz the new code it creates a fourth channel. The unit is trying to receive all the channels and one of three has to handle two pings. Hence the double-ping we see.

So the "fix" will be a place in the software to "decide" (the birdie's word) which you want to be better at that point, SI or 2d. For those of use that use 83 khz and SI on the bow in split-screen there will be no fix. Choices will have to be made. For the majority of users I personally think this is a reasonable solution.

UNQUOTE

http://www.bbcboards.net/humminbird-...le-birdie.html

Whether this is true or not...I am still skeptical...

We will never know...it is what it is...My unit runs well on 6.310...

I guess my AS GPS HS antenna is just an ornament from now on...but...that's OK ...

Me and my beloved "Donut" were destined to be together...

Rickie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slabbacks

Rickie

I believe it was you that requested this shot. Was going to get one while the boat was moving yesterday but forgot, was wanting to see if EST POS error would reduce while under way. I can say that the waypoints I transferred to the 859 from my other bow unit worked great and the 859 put me right on them.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps37245a09.png

---

I was just curious about the EPE and the HDOP in the new 56 channel internal antenna...

13ft EPE...(my AS GRHA is consistently less than 3ft EPE)...

Rickie

Don
This is what I ended up with for settings. As I learned with the 898 when I started with it, others settings may not work for your type of water conditions but it's a good starting point.

Beam
200/83

Surface clutter
4

Switch Fire
Max Mode

Fish ID
on

Fish ID Sen.
6

RTS window
Narrow

Sonar Colors
Palette 1

Bottom View
Structure ID

Zoom Width
Medium

83 khz Sen.
-7

Noise Filter
Medium

Max Depth
Auto

Water Type
Salt shallow
(I fish fresh water lakes) I found this took out a lot of the trash I was seeing.

Transducer
Duel Beam

Color Bar
OFF

Slabbacks...

Unless there is interference present in your views...the "Noise Filter" would be advantageous to run in "Off"...

Any setting higher than off can also filter out echo target data that you may want to see...

The unit processor does have algorithms that are supposed to decide what is echo targets and what is interference...(such that it's not "supposed" to descern echo targets as interference)...but...

The processor is not 100% effective in this decision....

Try the "Noise Filter" in "Off" ...and then adjust sensitivity to the amount of stuff you want to see on your screen...

Rickie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rnvinc

I was just curious about the EPE and the HDOP in the new 56 channel internal antenna...

13ft EPE...(my AS GRHA is consistently less than 3ft EPE)...

Rickie

---

Rickie I wish I would have remembered to get a screen shot while the boat was moving. Setting still it jumps around as though it's searching or something, you would know better than I would on this. I can say though it put me on the structure I had marked when I was on the TM going to targets in the same cove.

Do you think this is due to the internal antenna for the GPS when the boat is not moving? Next time out I'll check and see what the 898 shows vs the 859.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rnvinc

Slabbacks...

Unless there is interference present in your views...the "Noise Filter" would be advantageous to run in "Off"...

Any setting higher than off can also filter out echo target data that you may want to see...

Rickie

---

Thx Rickie for the info. In my notes I see that it was changes and showed a better picture. I didn't write down what type of interference so I don't remember what it was exactly. I'll check that out next time I get out.

thx again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slabbacks

Rickie I wish I would have remembered to get a screen shot while the boat was moving. Setting still it jumps around as though it's searching or something, you would know better than I would on this. I can say though it put me on the structure I had marked when I was on the TM going to targets in the same cove.

Do you think this is due to the internal antenna for the GPS when the boat is not moving? Next time out I'll check and see what the 898 shows vs the 859.

---

I'm sure stationary vs moving would have effects on the numbers but hopefully CatFan or Greg would be better at explaining this as they are way more versed in GPS than I am...

Rickie

It would also be advantageous to run the "Max Depth" setting in manual and set it to a depth about 10ft deeper than any water you may experience in your lake...

The unit uses the "Max Depth" to help control the ping frequency...

"Max Depth" in "Auto" is basically the unit spec (of 1500 I think)...

If the unit loses bottom in any 1 sound pulse (ping)...the unit goes into an extended "Listening" mode - listening for the return pulse...

The "Max Depth" setting tells the unit how long to wait for the return pulse in this extended "Listening" mode..:before sending out the next sequential sound pulse...(basically speeding up the ping sequence if the unit loses bottom)...

The shallower "Max Depth" setting will (in effect) make the unit perform better ...because more pings is always better...

This is why the "Max Depth" setting is the 1st popup menu window when the unit is powered up into "Normal" operating mode...so that the "Max Depth" setting is easier to get to at the start of your fishing day...easier than digging thru the Sonar tab to find it...

Rickie

When I'm in full 2D screen and hit menu one time I have a option to pick the upper level and lower level. This is where I was setting my bottom level shown.

I read about the max depth and thought it had the same effect as what I spoke of above. It took some time to get what I see now on the screen and I'm gun shy to change the settings I have. Would like to check that out and see what it does for the readings I'm getting. Just hesitant to push bottoms for now lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slabbacks

When I'm in full 2D screen and hit menu one time I have a option to pick the upper level and lower level. This is where I was setting my bottom level shown.

I read about the max depth and thought it had the same effect as what I spoke of above. It took some time to get what I see now on the screen and I'm gun shy to change the settings I have. Would like to check that out and see what it does for the readings I'm getting. Just hesitant to push bottoms for now lol.

---

Pushing buttons is a great learning tool for that equipment. Just remember that if things go crazy or you forget how you changed something you can always reset it to factory default and start over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slabbacks

When I'm in full 2D screen and hit menu one time I have a option to pick the upper level and lower level. This is where I was setting my bottom level shown.

I read about the max depth and thought it had the same effect as what I spoke of above. It took some time to get what I see now on the screen and I'm gun shy to change the settings I have. Would like to check that out and see what it does for the readings I'm getting. Just hesitant to push bottoms for now lol.

---

The "Upper Range" and "Lower Range" setting in the sonar Xpress menu is just telling the unit how much of the water column you want see...

I use the "Upper Range" and "Lower Range" settings sometimes to make brushpiles look bigger in the 2d or DI views...these settings remove those sections of the "Upper" and "Lower" water column from the display and "stretches" the left over data making brush look bigger...

These shots are the same brushpile at 0 Upper Range and 3 Upper Range...notice the brush "looks" taller with the Upper Range set at 3...

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps74218b07.png

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psa563a284.png

The "Max Depth" setting is a completely different setting...(as described in my previous post)...

The "Max Depth" setting is available only in the first popup window during power up...and under the Sonar tab in the main menu system...

Rickie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slabbacks

Rickie

I believe it was you that requested this shot. Was going to get one while the boat was moving yesterday but forgot, was wanting to see if EST POS error would reduce while under way. I can say that the waypoints I transferred to the 859 from my other bow unit worked great and the 859 put me right on them.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps37245a09.png

---

slabbacks,
I noted that the “Fix Type” was showing a “3D Fix” and not “Enhanced” and also that none of the WAAS satellites (46, 51, 48) were being tracked. This may have something to do with where the unit is mounted versus the direction you were heading (283 degrees (true North). You or the trees/hills in that area may have been physically blocking the WAAS satellite signals from the South. Your Estimated Position and HDOP numbers will look better when you are tracking the WAAS satellites and the “Fix Type” will change to “Enhanced”.

Thx Greg, the area i was at does have hills on most of the lake.

Ill check the max depth settings this weekend rickie and see what it does for the screen shot. Thx again

Is your 859 a DI unit?

ive only had my new 859 out a couple of times. Very impressed with the DI capabilities and equally disappointed with the 2D operation. I'm going to print your settings and try them next time.

Warhawk

The unit I have is not DI. After reading several PM's from here and other forums I am finding that the guys running the DI model are mostly the ones having issues with 2D on the 859 to some degree ( be it major or miner issues)

I'm starting to wonder if what we are seeing in the new SI 800's and 900's in reference to 2D, if this is tied in with the issues on the 859 DI. Rickie or some of the others would be more knowledgeable on that subject though. I ran DI for 2 years on the bow and for the way I fish it was not needed...nice but not needed in my case. After getting a SI unit I then just wanted a GPS/2D on the bow that would be able to link up with the GPS locations I marked on the console.

Me going to the GPS/2D only was in part due to this and reading about the issues folks were having with a DI or SI unit and their 2D. I hope it's just a setting or two off and you get her dialed in bud.
good luck

slabbacks,
What software version are you running in your 859ci HD unit?
The current version is 6.860

6.8 is what it's running. First day out i wanted 6.4 but after figuring out what i was doing 6.8 worked great.

slabbacks, when you are fishing over brush, do you slow your scroll speed(chart speed) down?

slabbacks,
Would that be 6.820, 6.830 or the current 6.860 software version.
There was no 6.400 version for the 859ci HD units, they were first made with the 6.820 version software. Try updating to the 6.860 version if tracking the WAAS satellites does not help any with the EPE and HDOP numbers.

Don i dont slow it down. I want it to refresh as fast as poss. without getting to the point of trash on the screen.

Greg ill check for ya. 6.4 is based off what i saw in my 898. For now i can not say anything bad about either unit. Pleased aint even the word to describe it.

What's the difference in 898 and 899ci HD SI combo?? Do you think the 899 in only side imagine would be better than the combo with di??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grantstricklin1984

What's the difference in 898 and 899c
i HD SI combo?? Do you think the 899 in only side imagine would be better than the combo with di??

---

899ci HD SI Combo...:

*Internal antenna
*Faster processor
*Cannot use Navionics Platinum or Platinum+
*Comes with the XNT 9 SI 180 T (83kHz/200kHz 2d and 455kHz SI)...but can be upgraded to the XHS 9 HDSI 180 T (83kHz/200kHz 2d and 455kHz/800kHz SI)...
*New model for 2014...

898c HD SI Combo...:

*External antenna...
*Comes with the XHS 9 HDSI 180 T (83kHz/200kHz 2d and 455kHz/800kHz SI)...
*Legacy status...

Rickie

The Si and Di sonar in both of these should be the same (with the exception of the 800kHz Si/Di sonar in the 899ci HD Si unit due to the transducers being different).

Is it worth the $ to upgrade the transducer on the 899ci HD SI Combo?

I like the 800khz for searching deeper water in SI. Gives better detail and a crisper image IMO. For the shallow stuff the 455 is the way to go.

Slabbacks,

What was your sensitivity setting?

Thanks

dandomo1 Off the top of my head I can't recall. I'll check it out and holler back

Hate to bother you again, but were you able to check the sensitivity setting. I'm leaving Thursday for a fishing trip.

Thanks

dan, sorry about that, been side tracked...I will go out when it's light and get it. Hope ya slay'em

dan, Sen. @ 10 / 83khz @ -2 / Fish ID @ 6.

In looking at my notes I see the Sen. changed slightly due to water depth be it greater or less. Depending on the depth, jig size and what plastics I was using. Best thing to do is drop the jig down to the bottom and adjust the Sen. until you see it bright. Then lower it until it goes away, slowly bring it back up until you get what you want to see on the screen. The vid I put up here was the 859 in shallower water but you can see how these settings look...worked great for me and pulled in several fish this way.

Use this as only a guideline and tweak it to better suite your needs. Hope it helps.