In Mo. how do you enforce someone hunting or fishing in the flood waters of the Miss. River when it is out of its banks or its tributaries being flooded because of high water on private property?
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In Mo. how do you enforce someone hunting or fishing in the flood waters of the Miss. River when it is out of its banks or its tributaries being flooded because of high water on private property?
Guess no one wants to tackle my question.
Here in ms delta I've heard different opinions. It all goes on who you ask. The same issue with the ms river levee. Some say it's public, some say it's not.
Thats why i would kind of like to hear from a wildlife officer in MO. I have researched it from different angles and different states. I was just wondering if a person were to get caught duck hunting in flood waters that covers private are you violating a hunting without permission or any kind of tresspassing law. Some states see it that if the flood water is over the ordidnary high water mark which is defined as above where the normal bank is or where the vegitation starts or stops like the tree line, then you are tresspassing. Lousianna for example has a case law that a person has the right to traverse flooded private property but not to engage in the act of hunting or fishing. Somewhere there has to be a law that deals with this situation.
I was always told that the rule in Mo, or at least on the Missouri river, is public property stops at the high water mark, which is usually the vegetation line at the tops of the banks. I know of a few guys who have had charges pressed against them for mushroom hunting along the banks of the river. I don't know if flooded conditions affect this rule or not, but I would think if you pay taxes on the ground then it is private, regardless of if there is water covering it or not. I would guess a wildlife official would answer your question in due time, but sometimes it takes a few days or even a few weeks for them to respond here because first of all they are busy guys with a lot of ground to cover and second your question is gonna be a little tough to get a definative answer (as to whats legal and how to enforce it). it seems like when a tough question is asked, our agents like to ask other agents their opinions so you get an accurate answer.
...and third, I'm sure that anything you read here is not going to be legally binding, and your mileage may vary with your local agent at the time s/he runs into you. Being informed, though, and having an answer here might help in that moment, or even when contesting it later on. But I seriously doubt that in a case like this where there seems to be a gray area on what is considered public and what is considered private, you're going to have different agents interpreting it differently.
Just last year, wasn't there a big story about a guy who was arrested for shooting and killing a man for trespassing and threatening him on private property? I mean, sounds like the altercation happened on private property, but the whole thing stemmed from whether the exposed sandbars and bank were considered private property (and therefore off-limits to people on canoe/float trips).
Yes I heard about that too. Where i live the Miss R. floods every year and the question always comes up about just being able to run a boat across flooded land which is private property. I know this is kinda a grey area but i really want to know how a wildlife officer would prosecute or not prosecute in this situation. Im talking about thousands of acres being flooded. I guess it would be up to each state on how they interpretate the law even if it is one dealing with this situation. It seems all of the states that border the Miss. R would have some kind of recipricle agreement on this matter as they do on hunting and fishing license.
Way back when (i'm talking in the '50s) whenever the Miss flooded the private ground north of St Peters MO, my Dad and I would have permission from the landowners to wade out and gig roughfish (no limit on carp and buffalo).
PERMISSION is the key word!
private property seems to me means private, flood or no flood, the line is still there and you should stay away, period.
And I think that's the answer he will get. If he gets one at all.
OP, there has been multiple threads and comments about this very subject on duck boards online. The two most often asked are the one you asked and the "is this channel/creek/slough/bayou public?"
Common answer to yours is the high water mark is still the property line of an adjoining landowner, whether it is dry or 15' under water.
The answer to the other one is, if it's navigable (and listed/stated as such by COE) then it's public. If it's non navigable then it's private water.
Commercial fishman been fighting that for years here in the atachafalya basin and if it's navigable they can fish it. And the high water mark was used
That is a very grey area and seems law enforcement have different ideas. Also we live along a small navigable river and our land is on both sides of the river. Do you actually own the land under the water? Questions with no definite answer. That shooting happened last summer on the Meramac River. A VERY busy float stream that is a mess in the summer.
To shed some light on this for you guys. If you are in flood waters and are in a boat as long as you cross property lines by water you are not trespassing. In other words say you have a pond that sits on a property line, as long as you get in a boat on your side of the line you can fish on the other side of the property line as long as you don't set foot on land you are not trespassing. So if the River floods as long as you can get there by boat you can go anywhere there is water. I know this as I'm a law enforcement officer and we have dealt with this (the county I work in is next to the Missouri River.) we have issues with duck hunters when it floods going in to the flood water on privite property. Landowners call and want us to press charges for trespassing, as long as they don't go on land there isn't anything we can do.
I spoke with the Agent supervisors in our office and they both had the same answer. You must stay within the banks of the river or you are trespassing.
If the river is within its banks this is correct, if it is flooded and out of its banks you can go in the flood water.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOfishmgr
Thanks for the clarification. Thanks also for taking the time to check it out for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOfishmgr
I farm several acres of Mississippi River overflow land in MO as well as in IL. All of My farm property roads are gated with signage( and purple paint) where they come off federal levees. Several equipment buildings on these farms ( built on dirt mounds )and ponds are occasionally flooded when the rivers go on a rampage.... I don't allow anyone to enter or cross my fields to hunt/fish/explore during high water events without written permission....conservation agents and the sheriff have been very supportive of my policy and have enforced it at my request.