Question for D10?????

Was wondering when is enough really enough and when is to much really to much? As if commerants wasn't bad enough, now we are seeing a abundance of pelicans, sea gulls, not leaving out the native species we have a lot of the big herrons, and the smaller blue herrons. At what point does one stand back and scratch thier head and say " I wonder what the impact is on the fish populations and fish species is now that we have all these add fish eaters." Those pelicans are capable of eating larger fish. These smaller bodies of water here in Arkansas and all throughout the U.S. are not even comparable to the aquatic life thats in the ocean. These ocean birds are big eaters, has there been any studies or research done to determine the Impact that they have on these smaller bodies of water? I have seen times on Lake Conway and the Arkansas river where there were hundreds of these pelicans and commerants numbering near 1000 or more, plus gulls these are fish eating machines, they are here for the fish, they must be getting them also, cause they seam to be hanging around. What impact do they have on smaller bodies of water and on shallow lakes such as Lake Conway? I am sure that they are frequenting other lakes as well? What is the overall big picture of the amount of fish they are eating, and what kind of fish they are eating, I would figure with a mouth as big as a pelican has, that they aint real picky about what they are eating, if it fits then it is a meal. I wouldn't think one 3 inch long thread fin shad is even a snack for a pelican.

I don't know the answer to your questions, but I fished yesterday morning at Lake Atkins and I would guess there were 500 pelicans just on the 1/3rd of the lake that I could see. That did no include a lot of gulls and commerants. Me and couple of other boats fished a couple of hours and nobody got a fish.

I find it humorous the comarants are a protected species. There are literally herds of them in the Harbor at the port.
DP

With the recent cold weather and more to come (which causes a shad die off) I would think they are pick up the dying shad. If don't think they have enough to eat why don't you put some Asian Carp in the lake and maybe they will leave the crappie along.rotfl.

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Originally Posted by Lkconwayguru

Was wondering when is enough really enough and when is to much really to much? As if commerants wasn't bad enough, now we are seeing a abundance of pelicans, sea gulls, not leaving out the native species we have a lot of the big herrons, and the smaller blue herrons. At what point does one stand back and scratch thier head and say " I wonder what the impact is on the fish populations and fish species is now that we have all these add fish eaters." Those pelicans are capable of eating larger fish. These smaller bodies of water here in Arkansas and all throughout the U.S. are not even comparable to the aquatic life thats in the ocean. These ocean birds are big eaters, has there been any studies or research done to determine the Impact that they have on these smaller bodies of water? I have seen times on Lake Conway and the Arkansas river where there were hundreds of these pelicans and commerants numbering near 1000 or more, plus gulls these are fish eating machines, they are here for the fish, they must be getting them also, cause they seam to be hanging around. What impact do they have on smaller bodies of water and on shallow lakes such as Lake Conway? I am sure that they are frequenting other lakes as well? What is the overall big picture of the amount of fish they are eating, and what kind of fish they are eating, I would figure with a mouth as big as a pelican has, that they aint real picky about what they are eating, if it fits then it is a meal. I wouldn't think one 3 inch long thread fin shad is even a snack for a pelican.

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Cary - these are some great questions. Unfortunately I do not have the answers that you are looking for. But I can attempt to answer a couple of your questions. Yes, I personally think that these birds are having an impact on the fish population in smaller/shallow lakes. How much is really hard to determine. I would venture a guess that they are mainly eating shad, the most abundant species in lakes. However, as you pointed out, pelicans can eat what ever fits in their mouth. There have been studies done on hatcheries that estimate how much fish various birds are eating. But to my knowledge a similar study on a lake has not been done. Probably due to how difficult it would be to quantify the impact. On a hatchery, each pond is mono culture (one species/pond) and the amount of fish in that pond can be determined pretty accurately. This of course is a different situation on a lake (multiple species and unknown amount of each fish). Also on a lake there would be confounding factors that would interfere with trying to determine the impact of the birds (predation by other fish/animals, impacts from environmental conditions, etc...). As you know, all of the birds you listed are protected by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. This is a federal regulation. From their perspective, the birds have every right to be on Lake Conway as the fish. On some hatcheries and lakes you can get a depredation permit to shoot the birds. They would not grant us this permit on Lake Conway due to the amount of development around the lake (trust me, I have inquired). On a side note, I have seen huge flocks of white pelicans on Harris Brake, Overcup, Conway, and Atkins. I think they are on these lakes due to the abundance of fish and their close proximity to the Arkansas River. I have seen more this year than any other year that I can remember.

What's causing all these birds to show up in greater numbers each year?

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Originally Posted by Ztkirkpatric

What's causing all these birds to show up in greater numbers each year?

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I am not sure. It could be a case of adult birds teaching their young to ulilize this food source. As more and more birds appear in the population through reproduction, they all know that these lakes are fully of easy picking fish. A similar thing is happening with mockingbirds eating my father-in-laws blueberries. Each summer the adult birds teach their young to eat the blueberries. This past year, they nearly ate allbof the blueberries. Fortunately netting can be put over the bushes. I can't say the same for the lake.

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Originally Posted by Ztkirkpatric

What's causing all these birds to show up in greater numbers each year?

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Global warming.
I think that when we have harsh winters, like we're having, the lack of open water up north pushes the pelicans and gulls down. We don't have these numbers every year. Cormorants seem to be here all the time, though

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Originally Posted by rockmike

I think that when we have harsh winters, like we're having, the lack of open water up north pushes the pelicans and gulls down. We don't have these numbers every year. Cormorants seem to be here all the time, though

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Sounds like a plausible explanation to me Mike.

Birds are a big reason why fishing gets good on the lake in the fall and winter. They also are the reason the fish run to these Conway Fall/Winter hot spots, Commarants and Pelicans show up...Fish Run to get away from them on the main lake and run up the creeks, or where people are located to keep birds scared off.. If there are no fisherman to keep them scared off they will even invade the hot spots such as Gold Creek. I see it every year If fishing is slow and there is nobody fishing on Gold Creek...The creek and pool gets pounded by big fish eating birds. It is important for us to keep fishing places like Gold and Caney creeks before it goes to the birds. And now that the Big Boys (Pelicans) are showing up by the 1000's it's even more important to keep fisherman up the creek before it goes to the birds.

I forgot about this....
Spent some time in SE Asia. They fish with the comorants. They tie a string aroung the neck so they can't swallow the Fish. Then they simply pull the fish out of their mouths like Otto Kilcher does a dead duck.
DP

The birds were protected years ago as populations were dropping because in part because of pesticides which are now outlawed. The birds are plentiful now and it would be tough to get protected statis removed.

I know they sure make it easy to find the whites and strikers schooling on the big lakes... Just look for the birds!!!

Stripers

I've wondered why cormorants were protected and still do. Interesting post and thanks D10 for the response.

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Originally Posted by Ztkirkpatric

What's causing all these birds to show up in greater numbers each year?

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They're like armadillos, first started seeing them in south Arkansas 40yrs ago, now they're everywhere, same with hogs and illegal aliens. As long as they get something for free they keep coming.