2014 Regulation Change

Anyone who fishes with minnows, or seines or traps their own minnows for bait, in ANY STREAM OR CREEK OR RIVER, in Oklahoma had better be aware of the new 2014 regulation. It is unlawful to take or possess more than 25 nongame bait fish on any creek river or stream in OK. This includes commercially purchased bait. In other words if you are fishing with minnows in the Nav Channel, or Grand River or even below the dam at Keystone you can't have more than 25 minnows in your bait bucket. If you seine or trap your own minnows from a creek or river you can only take 25.

I can see it now, ' how many minnas you got boy'?

I will talk to the ODWC boys and see what triggered this proposal.

I sent them an email yesterday. Haven't heard back.

What I have been able to find out so far is that the intent of the regulation was to protect native non game fishes in the Eastern Oklahoma Scenic waterways. I was also informed that the law would be enforced with that intent in mind. I was also informed that if you had a receipt from a commercial minnow dealer that you bought bait from that you would be OK.

HOWEVER That is not what the law states a currently written. As written you can not raise or use your own minnows, cannot seine or trap more than 25 minnows from ANY river, creek or stream and cannot even posses more than 25 minnows on a river, creek or stream. Enforcing the law at the discretion of the individual 0fficer can only lead to confusion and abuse.

that's why I wanted something in writing.

I can't keep receipts for tools or electronics...let alone receipts for minners.

Cricket George, This is NOT just a proposal it IS now the law. I strongly opposed this when it was a proposal and came up for public comment but evidently not enough negative comments were received to sway the ODWC fisheries division.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding this..... so if I fish blue or Spencer Creek I can only have 25?

I guess that is just like the rest of this screwed up regulation. It is up to the individual officer to determine where the creek ends and the lake begins. What about every other creek and river that feeds into a lake?

Here is the response I got from my email to the Wildlife Department.

"The rule does not apply to purchased minnows from a bait shop."



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 17:55
To: info
Subject: 2014 fishing regulations



Your 2014 fishing regulations state: “Rivers and Streams: It is illegal to take or possess more than 25 nongame bait fish, except for shad, of which 200 may

be taken or possessed.”



Does this apply to commercially purchased minnows, and, if so, is it per person or per boat?



Thank you

Floyd Carter

So, get a receipt ! Next it will be perch or tree frogs. Red laced crickets and cock roaches! Regs!

That's sort of the answer I got, however that is just one persons interpretation of the reg. The regulation doesn't say commercially purchased minnows are exempt. What if someone else decides to enforce the letter of the law just as it is written? I also got an answer back that said I could have as many small sunfish in my possession for bait as I wanted when fishing in a river a long as I got them from a lake or pond. Now how can I prove where they came from. The answer I got back also stated that golden shiners and goldfish were exempt but should still have receipt. Nowhere does it say that in the regulation. I was also told that there was no definition for where a stream or river ended and a lake began except where specifically stated in the Regulation. Once again who makes the determination that I am fishing in the lake or in a creek or river when it feeds into a lake?

I'm not going to worry about it. I'll have a receipt and a copy of the email. If I get a ticket I'll go to court (and the Warden won't show.)

I am with you on this IkenI, I will keep the receipt for the minnows and what comes will come. I am more concerned about me being able to use the minnows that we will have here at the house/shop once I get my tanks built.

Bobo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IkenI

Here is the response I got from my email to the Wildlife Department.

"The rule does not apply to purchased minnows from a bait shop."



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 17:55
To: info
Subject: 2014 fishing regulations



Your 2014 fishing regulations state: “Rivers and Streams: It is illegal to take or possess more than 25 nongame bait fish, except for shad, of which 200 may

be taken or possessed.”



Does this apply to commercially purchased minnows, and, if so, is it per person or per boat?



Thank you

Floyd Carter

---

I went a head and printed this email response out and will have it on me with my fishing license in the boat. It might be a good idea for anyone else using minnows to do the same. If you need a copy I will have it with me in the morning. Hopefully One Stop has a copy machine.

Bobo

I just spoke with a warden and he told me that the new law does not apply to commercially purchased bait. He also stated that when you get your minnows at the bait shop, to keep your reciept just in case you are questioned about it...

But don't show it right off the bat. Give em some hell first. This is a BS law and everybody knows it, including the law men. Unless you get a Barny Fife, I seriously doubt any one will get chastised over this. I'm for Tellin em where to go.

Maybe we can get Winger to clear this up for us? He is a wildlife bioligist. EB

So far I have received one email reply from ODWC that wasn't much help, one e-mail reply that said someone would get back with me, and then I got a phone call that I have tried to return twice but I keep getting a voice mail box. The main question I can't get an answer to Is where the lake ends and the river or creek/stream begins. For instance, Is the Low Water Dam area above Ft. Gibson considered River or part of Ft. Gibson Lake? Same question about the upper end of Lake Hudson. Same question about the Neosho and Spring Rivers above Grand Lake. What about the Navigation Channel.

I just got off the phone with Brandon Brown with ODWC. He said that the regulation does not apply to commercially purchased bait. He could not provide an answer to where a river or creek ends and the lake begins, or whether the Nav Channel is considered a river or a series of lakes etc. He said they may have to change the reg to be more specific.

Don't matter to me. When I use minnows they will be store bought and I'll have the receipt.

Don't count on getting any slack on anything questionable by a game warden! If they have found ANYTHING wrong, you'll be nailed to the cross and hung out to dry. If they can get you, they will, period!

Question every move they make, be sure of every move you make!

Now we need tyvek receipt paper instead of the miserable thermal paper ones to STAY legal. I think we need to contact the state representative and tell them.
I think they'll agree. Seriously how big a problem is this that people might work their ass off to seign a few minnows or net some shad??????

Laws are passed by the legislature. The ODW cannot make laws. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some legislator without outdoor knowledge that had been influenced by somebody asked for, and with out any major complaints by the very people that were affected the most, got it rammed through. Its a common problem when the ODW puts up a reg for public discussion, the amount of responses can be counted on one hand on occasion. Part of it is apathy by the outdoors folks, and part of it is because the public see's its going to be a reg for SE Okla, which doesn't concern them, and doesn't comment because it doesn't concern them in their fishing areas. Well, until now. If you don't like this, contact your state senator, and representative, and make sure your buddy's do too. Complaints on a forum make us all more aware of a problem that currently exists, but won't get the reg changed unless we lobby our law makers.

From my discussion with Mr. Brown from ODWC the problem was a group or groups of ethnic minority people were using cast nets and literally catching everything that swims in the holes in some of the Eastern Oklahoma Rivers. The fish, even the minnows, were being consumed for food and in many instances were cooked and consumed on site. In response to complaints from local landowners all cast nets were prohibited on all scenic rivers. The ethnic groups just moved to other streams and continued to decimate the fish. There were no bag limits on non game fish so these groups were taking minnows by the thousands which resulted in drastic drops in fish populations. Faced with pressure from the public in the area, the law establishing he limit of 25 non game fish from all rivers and streams was enacted to try and prevent the groups from just moving from one river or creek to another. The regulation against taking or transporting more than 200 shad or bait fish was enacted because people were coming into Oklahoma from Arkansas and Texas and removing thousands and thousands of Shad and minnows which were sold in Arkansas and Texas. The laws are poorly written and confusing and try to address a primarily Eastern Oklahoma problem with blanket laws that affect the whole state. I voiced my opposition to these regulations, as they are written, back when they were first proposed. When I spoke to Mr. Brown he said that ODWC had only received less than a dozen complaints about the new laws.

I have my State Representative coming over to discuss a few issues and want to take this to task as well. Please let me know you thoughts or position and I will let her know how we feel about regulations / laws like this !