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Just talked to Aaron Post Platte co. agent, he had a meeting with his superviser and the answer is you cannot repeat cannot use bullheads over 5 inches for live bait. Reposted this so everyone would know. No matter what method used.Maybe if they get enough interested they will recatigorize bullheads from other fish to rough fish, then you could use larger bullheads
UNLESS caught with a hook and pole. then you can use whatever size you want, but the bait still counts toward your daily creel limit. the 5 inch rule is if you catch them (or any other fish other than shad and asian carp and asian carp cannot be used or kept alive) in a bait trap, sein or cast net, or any method other than a pole and line. I don't mean to sound cocky or arrogant but I have read the code book over and over when it comes to catfish bait, and I fish by the code book. that said, maybe I'm wrong! after all, I am only human. but I'm from the show-me state so show me!
I was with Agent Post and our supervisor when this was discussed and I am glad it was brought up again. In re-reading my response to the initial question I see where there may have been confusion. The code referenced in the initial post is still valid here and the extra wording should still be valid as well, with the exception that I would add and emphasize the following:
- If using bullheads as LIVE BAIT, then you must catch them using live bait methods (3 CSR 10-6.605 – 3 CSR 10-6.620) and the length limit applies… NO BULLHEADS OVER 5” AS LIVE BAIT.
- If using bullheads as CUT BAIT, etc., (not live bait) than no length limit applies.
I apologize for any confusion in my initial post and hope this clears everything up. As you see adding a simple word such as “live” in front of “bait” completely changes the species, size, limits, methods, etc. within the Wildlife Code’s regulations. I know it’s frustrating at times for you all when I just reprint the Code in my responses. I recognize the need for “re-wording” to help clear up questions but if I put it in my own words a certain way in text it may not clear it up how I intend it to.
3 CSR 10-6.410 Fishing Methods
(1)Fish may be taken….. Live bait, mussels, clams, bullfrogs, green frogs, common snapping turtles, and soft-shelled turtles may be taken ONLY as specifically authorized in 3 CSR 10-6.605 through 3 CSR 10-6.620.
3 CSR 10-6.550 Other Fish
(1) Daily limit: The daily limit for fish, other than those species listed as endangered in 3 CSR 10-4.111 or defined as game fish, is fifty (50) in the aggregate, if taken by pole and line, trotline, throwline, limb line, bank line, jug line, or underwater spearfishing. The daily limit if taken by gig, atlatl, bow, crossbow, snaring, snagging, or grabbing is twenty (20) in the aggregate. Bighead carp, common carp, goldfish, grass carp, and silver carp may be taken and possessed in any number.
(3)Fish taken under this rule may be used as bait; except that bowfin, or parts thereof (including eggs), may not be used as bait.
Thank you again for bringing this to our attention so that we can clarify for you. I hope this helps and I hope we continue to provide a positive service through this message board!
Daniel Schepis
Conservation Agent
8/7/13 @ 0940
This is not a complete replication of the Wildlife Code
well,crap! insert foot in mouth..... I'm glad I read this, might have saved me a ticket...
ya southpoint this was very confusing maybe if enough people would contact MDC and ask them to relist bullheads as rough fish this would take care of the length limit CONTACT MDC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well to be honest this is kind of a kick in the pants for me and a few other local cat guys I know of. in my opinion there is no better flathead bait. it's not that the little guys won't catch some flatties, the problem is catching a bullhead under 5 inches!
Regulation changes often start by someone or a group talking to an agent.Quote:
Originally Posted by catkilr
Agreed. This might have saved me a ticket also. I don't catch many bullhead where I get my creek chubs, but when I do, they are my go to bait for prime time spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by south point
Thanks
after reading and rereading this many times ,to me your first response was the correct answer depending on methods used.When the code book says (may be used as bait) I believe (unless stated otherwise) that we can use them anyway we want (within regs) live, dead, cut, smached, rotten however! You said bullheads of any size could be used as cut bait. This goes back to what I just said. The only place in this book that says anything about cut bait is on page 82 specifically bighead,silver carp. Picture this scenario I am out on the mo river,I have 50, 10-12 in live bullheads in my livewell, I have a trotline in plain sight and my fishing rods . I tell you I caught the bullheads intent on eating them, then changed my mind and decided to use them as cut bait or dead whole. WOULD YOU BELIVE ME. probably not. It seems to me the interpatation of live bait is way off. Back in the day catching live bait meant goin and checking minnow traps or seining a creek to catch chubs and crawdads. I would almost bet if this question was asked to every agent in the state and told to analize they would as you two did come up with different answers. Since fishing has evolved into what it is today this is one law that needs to change with it, and according to the responses and views, we catfisherman would prefer to use the larger bullheads. I have a small pond (water hole for my cows) that is full of larger bullheads that I guess now will deffinatly overpopulate it . I hope the responses of this one little site show the interest of most cat guys statewide and the rules will be revised. please one more time define may be used as bait Im done. lol
Thank you everyone foryour open discussion, professionalism, and patience on this issue. It sounds like it would be an easy question toanswer but has proven difficult during this discussion. This questionhas been discussed in several regions and here is the answer:
I will try and clearthis all up. MDCAgent663_Clay wascorrect in his response. I have copiedand pasted his response and I will highlight portions in hopes of making itclear. The highlighted portions pertain to the question posted by catkilr ”Whatis the size limit (if any) on live bullheads for trotline bait?”
If you have any questions after reading this please contactme, Scott Stephens, Kansas City Protection District Supervisor, at 816-585-5468 or [email protected].
There are several parts of the Wildlife Code of Missouri tobe considered here. I included a lot of code (and left a lot out) because Ineeded to in order to give you the full story. What it boils down to is thatdepending on your method of catching the bait fish there may be lengthrestrictions. Let’s start with categorization of fish and there use as bait:
1. 3 CSR10-6.410(13) states: “Endangered species and fish included in 3 CSR10-6.505 through 3 CSR 10.545, including their parts and eggs, may not be usedas bait.
THIS SHUTS DOWN THEUSE OF GAME FISH and ENDANGERED SPECIES AS BAIT
1.Bullheadsare not considered game fish {3CSR 10-20.805(25)(A)} and therefore fallinto the “other fish” category of the Wildlife Code of Missouri.
1. 3 CSR 10-6.550 Other Fish
(1)Daily limit: The daily limit for fish, otherthan those species listed as endangered in 3 CSR 10-4.111 or defined as gamefish, is fifty (50) in the aggregate,if taken by pole and line, trotline, throwline, limb line, bank line, jug line,or underwater spearfishing. The daily limit if taken by gig, atlatl,bow, crossbow, snaring, snagging, or grabbing is twenty (20) in the aggregate.Bighead carp, common carp, goldfish, grass carp, and silver carp may be takenand possessed in any number.
(3)Fish taken under this rule may be used as bait; except thatbowfin, or parts thereof (including eggs), may not be used as bait.
THIS ALLOWS THEHARVEST OF BULLHEADS AND OTHER “OTHER” FISH AND THEIR USE AS BAIT – some otherregulations restrict certain methods in certain areas. Reference the “OtherFish” section of the code for specifics. Note: fish taken under this rule by the methods in thisrule do not have a length limit.
3CSR 10-6.605 Live Bait
1.3 READ THIS SECTION FOR SPECIFIC DETAILS REGARDINGTHE LIMITS AND METHODS ALLOWED FOR FISH CAUGHT USING “LIVE BAIT” METHODS. IT BASICALLY STATES THATCERTAIN NETS SEINES, AND TRAPS MAY BE USED IN ACCORDANCE TO THE CODE TO CATCHBAIT FISH.
1.3 CSR 10-6.605(4) Length Limits: All bluegill, green sunfish, and bullheads morethan five inches (5”) in total length and other fish more than twelve inches(12”) in total length must be returned to the water unharmed immediately afterbeing caught by the methods prescribed in this rule, except there are nolength limits for bighead carp, common carp, gizzard shad, goldfish, grasscarp, and silver carp.
SO… IF YOUCATCH THE BULLHEADS BY “LIVE BAIT” METHODS THAN A LENGTH LIMIT APPLIES,OTHERWISE NO LENGTH LIMIT APPLIES TO YOUR TAKING (WHICH PRECEEDS POSSESSION ANDUSE AS BAIT).
Well that didn't work. Apparently highlighting is not a feature recognized on this software. Let's try this again.You would think that a guy that spends as much time in the office as I do would know that.Thank you everyone foryour open discussion, professionalism, and patience on this issue. It sounds like it would be an easy question toanswer but has proven difficult during this discussion. This questionhas been discussed in several regions and here is the answer:
I will try and clearthis all up. MDCAgent663_Clay wascorrect in his response. I have copiedand pasted his response and I will bold portions in hopes of making itclear. The bolded portions pertain to the question posted by catkilr ”Whatis the size limit (if any) on live bullheads for trotline bait?”
If you have any questions after reading this please contactme, Scott Stephens, Kansas City Protection District Supervisor, at 816-585-5468 or [email protected]. Again guys, thanks for the discussion and good luck fishing.
There are several parts of the Wildlife Code of Missouri tobe considered here. I included a lot of code (and left a lot out) because Ineeded to in order to give you the full story. What it boils down to is thatdepending on your method of catching the bait fish there may be lengthrestrictions. Let’s start with categorization of fish and there use as bait:
1. 3 CSR10-6.410(13) states: “Endangered species and fish included in 3 CSR10-6.505 through 3 CSR 10.545, including their parts and eggs, may not be usedas bait.
THIS SHUTS DOWN THEUSE OF GAME FISH and ENDANGERED SPECIES AS BAIT
1.Bullheadsare not considered game fish {3CSR 10-20.805(25)(A)} and therefore fallinto the “other fish” category of the Wildlife Code of Missouri.
1. 3 CSR 10-6.550 Other Fish
(1)Daily limit: The daily limit for fish, otherthan those species listed as endangered in 3 CSR 10-4.111 or defined as gamefish, is fifty (50) in the aggregate,if taken by pole and line, trotline, throwline, limb line, bank line, jug line,or underwater spearfishing. The daily limit if taken by gig, atlatl,bow, crossbow, snaring, snagging, or grabbing is twenty (20) in the aggregate.Bighead carp, common carp, goldfish, grass carp, and silver carp may be takenand possessed in any number.
(3)Fish taken under this rule may be used as bait; except thatbowfin, or parts thereof (including eggs), may not be used as bait.
THIS ALLOWS THEHARVEST OF BULLHEADS AND OTHER “OTHER” FISH AND THEIR USE AS BAIT – some otherregulations restrict certain methods in certain areas. Reference the “OtherFish” section of the code for specifics. Note: fish taken under this rule by the methods in thisrule do not have a length limit.
3CSR 10-6.605 Live Bait
1.3 READ THIS SECTION FOR SPECIFIC DETAILS REGARDINGTHE LIMITS AND METHODS ALLOWED FOR FISH CAUGHT USING “LIVE BAIT” METHODS. IT BASICALLY STATES THATCERTAIN NETS SEINES, AND TRAPS MAY BE USED IN ACCORDANCE TO THE CODE TO CATCHBAIT FISH.
1.3 CSR 10-6.605(4) Length Limits: All bluegill, green sunfish, and bullheads morethan five inches (5”) in total length and other fish more than twelve inches(12”) in total length must be returned to the water unharmed immediately afterbeing caught by the methods prescribed in this rule, except there are nolength limits for bighead carp, common carp, gizzard shad, goldfish, grasscarp, and silver carp.
SO… IF YOUCATCH THE BULLHEADS BY “LIVE BAIT” METHODS THEN A LENGTH LIMIT APPLIES,OTHERWISE NO LENGTH LIMIT APPLIES TO YOUR TAKING (WHICH PRECEEDS POSSESSION ANDUSE AS BAIT).
So my understanding is that any bullhead caught on pole and line can be used as bait, no matter the length. But if you are throwing a net for bait, you must release all "other fish" over 5".....and that may be why the misunderstanding.
hmmm.....:dono
Thank you very glad this is over,now should we print this or will you send an email all your people so there isn't any problems with anybody that hasn't been on this site? I have the utmost respect for mdc and what they do, and glad this issue is RESOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol