Interesting experiments goin on here...
(I don't know who this rnvinc guy is...:biggrin )
Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
Rickie
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Interesting experiments goin on here...
(I don't know who this rnvinc guy is...:biggrin )
Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
Rickie
Been watching that thread for a while! Has me curious, but I am waiting for more input.
so, how good is humminbird DI on it's purely DI units ? good as lowrance?
Well rlckie,you've got me hooked. I like the results that Im getting with the Di transducer from my 597 but i just can't quit tinkering around Im going to try a hdsi transducer tilted 60° but i thought that i would try the left si element for my experiment. i need to block contact to the pin on the right.is that correct?
you need to blog this. or detail all of it here
This xducer setup is basically using 1 of the SI piezo elements in th XHS 9 HDSI 180 T to get a downward shooting fan beam...."True Dedicated DI"...in a HB SI unit....sortof....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmo
This setup will be utilizing the Right SI element in the stock HDSI xducer ...by turning the right piezo element downward toward
the lake bottom like seen in this depiction...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc69ceb32.jpg
You will definitely have to operate this setup with the AS SIDB Y cable and an additional 2d xducer....
The reason you need to use an additional 2d xducer is....
The HB unit gets depth from the 200kHz 2d frequency and rotating the xducer cause the 2d beams to shoot out of the xducer housing at the opposing 60° angle that the xducer is rotated....this will cause the unit to be confused on "where the bottom is" and cause the "pinging" to become erratic and unstable..."pinging frequency" is mostly determined by water depth because the unit sends out a "ping" and then waits for "return ping"... If the xducer is rotated 60° ...it is prevalent for the unit to not "see" bottom...which in turn tells the unit to Wait for the determined "Max Depth" you have set for the sonar..
In a nutshell ...you want the unit to "ping" as frequently as possible to get the best detailed DI mage...and a steady bottom reading from a separate 2d xducer on the AS SIDB Y cable is the way to accomplish this...
Any HB xducer that has the 83/200kHz frequencies will work for this as the pins in the cable connector feeding the 200kHz channel are positioned in the same place across all the HB xducer's that have 83/200kHz capability...
You can even use a second XHS 9 HDSI 180 T for the 2d "Dual Beam" leg of the Y cable because the connector on the "Dual Beam" leg of the Y cable just does not carry the pins that would physically connect either of the SI channels...
You do not have to block or remove any pins in this setup (for the XHS 9 HDSI 180 T rotated clockwise 60°) for this to work...but you will probably get better images if you do remove the "Left SI pin" in the AS SIDB Y cable to eliminate errant beam reflections off the water's surface from the left SI channel that will be directed upwards in this rotated xducer...
You would need to remove the "lowest pin" in the AS SIDB Y cable for the "Left SI" channel as seen in this depiction...(just break it out with needle nose pliers....)
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb4bd5280.jpg
So...when running this unique DI setup of a HDSI xducer rotated clockwise 60°...
*Connect the "Side Image" leg of the AS SIDB Y cable to the rotated HDSI xducer..
*Connect the "Dual Beam" leg of the AS SIDB Y cable to any HB xducer capable of 83/200kHz...
*Connect the AS SIDB Y cable main connector to the head unit...
*Make sure the "Transducer Select" menu is still set to "HI DEF Sidescan"...
DISCLAIMER...HB has yet to provide an "Official Warranty Statement" saying this is OK to do with a HB SI unit..
Rickie
Here are some comparison shots of the same brushpile on the same day with the different xducer setups of my 1197c SI Combo...
This is the DI view of the brushpile using the stock HDSI xducer in normal orientation (DI from SI)...(800kHz)
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psfdd0baf5.png
This is the DI view of the brushpile using the stock HDSI xducer in normal orientation (DI from SI) ... (455kHz)
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...pseeb8c560.png
This is the DI view of the brushpile using the stock HDSI xducer rotated 60° ...(800kHz)
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psd1574e56.png
This is the DI view of the brushpile using the stock HDSI xducer rotated 60°...(455kHz) (the brush is leaning the opposite direction because I scanned this shot from 180° of my previous track)
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps127d4bc5.png
This is the DI view of the brushpile using the XNT 9 WIDE DI T (Dedicated DI xducer) ...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps078c5151.png
(I didn't get the 455 shot of the same brushpile using the DI xducer...)
Rickie
Here are some odds and ends shots of my 1197c SI Combo using the HDSI xducer rotated 60°...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps1d74b0c2.png
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps9886268c.png
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psa563a284.png
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps57a4231e.png
Rickie
Here are some odds and ends shots with my 1197c SI Combo using the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T (Dedicated DI xducer) ...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps2cdf7f5c.png
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse0db27ea.png
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps207f05b9.png
Rickie
WOW, you are getting after it ! so based on what you'be seen thus far, what is the best option? thanks for all the work on this.
kosmo,Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmo
Due to the location of the pins in the HDSi transducer connector, this will only work with the right Si sonar beam as it is the only one that will make an electrical connection with a DI unit. Now if you were only going to use it on an Si unit you could use either the right or left Si sonar beam.
I feel there is a "slight" DI image detail edge in the HDSI xducer rotated 60°...and, as Greg has explained over at sideimagingsoft, this is due to the piezo element in the HDSI xducer is physically longer than the piezo element in the DI xducer...(longer array = thinner beam = more detail)...Quote:
Originally Posted by brettw
But...this setup is a going to require a lot more components to work in anything but a experimental capacity...
To have this setup and make is fishable...one would need...
*Stock XHS 9 HDSI 180 T for when the SI is needed....
*A 2nd HDSI xducer to rotate in the 60° orientation
*An extra HB xducer capable of 83/200khz for depth when the HDSI xducer is rotated 60°...
*The TS3 switch to toggle between the 2 separate xducer setups...
So...3 xducer's and a switch to make this setup work in a fishable setup...
this part is really messing with my OCD...:)
I'm sure there will be more experiments and testing in the coming near future...
Rickie
I think Greg means "it is the only one that will make an electrical connection with a DI xducer"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Humminbird_Greg
Rickie
Oops!
You would be most correct Rickie, thanks.
WOW. I like what I am seeing, but aint' got a clue what ya'll are talking about!!!! LOL!
My experiments were based on a tidbit press release of a pro using a "Dedicated DI" xducer on a HB SI unit....Quote:
Originally Posted by Shine Runner
"Dedicated DI" is merely having a crystal in the xducer that is a "fan shape" beam ...but pointing it down to get echo reflections from under the boat...
"DI from SI" (as in stock HB SI units) utilizes 2 separate crystals pointing out to the side and then computer generating a DI image from the SI data...
At this point in my testing I am finding surprisingly better DI images in my 1197 SI using this experimental di xducer setup...
With Greg's innovative thinking and a lot of help at sideimagingsoft.com ...I even experimented with a different orientation in the stock HDSI xducer that came with my unit...aiming 1 of the SI crystals down toward the lake bottom ...(as described earlier in this thread) ...
The results I'm getting in these DI images are even more surprisingly better than the DI xducer hooked up to my SI unit...
Feel free to ask questions....or pm me if need be...
Rickie
Thanks. I was thinking about your 60 degree rotation. Is it mounted parallel (as normal installation) to the bottom of the boat and turned 60 degrees left/right (clockwise/counter clockwise) on a different mount? I am not SI/DI set up yet, but have been looking hard at which way I want to go. Every time I think I know, I read something like this that makes me back up and go WTH. I appreciate what you and several others are doing by pushing the envelope beyond what the company guys are doing or at least doing it in public. It can only be good for the companies when the real users are helping critique and/or think outside the box on how to get the best results from these units. I just can't make my mind work in a 3d world enough to really understand all that is posted. Keep it coming!
My description of this experimental xducer setup is in post #6 of this same thread...
You can jump to it here...
http://www.crappie.com/crappie/side-...ml#post2372947
Realize that using the stock HDSI xducer rotated like this eliminates the usability of the SI because now the left SI beam is shooting up toward the water surface...
This experimental setup can be used with the HB TS3 switch such that 1 leg of the switch could be hooked to an additional HDSI xducer for regular SI scanning and then flip the TS3 switch to use this setup for "Dedicated DI" views...
This is most likely how I will use the setup...
Rickie
As for me, I am quite happy with DI imagies taken by the cheapest SI transducer, that is installed in normal position on my Humminbird 385 ci DI :) :
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6555/7b56.png
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9504/jbsq.png
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
OK ...somebody tell me which way is "forward" on the LSS 2 xducer...
My 1197 does not have the option to switch left and right...
Rickie
here's a picture of my set up using the 60° on a standard si transducer. I also have a Di transducer and another si transducer on this bracket.http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps6483d9ed.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Shine Runner
Well here's the setup...
I finally got it where I can easily rotate the HDSI or the LSS 2 to 60° ...
Lots of testing to do now...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc30732e6.jpg
Rickie
Rickie
I haven't read the entire thread, but what exactly are you trying to do?
very cool
I find in very interesting that the masses of sonar users are led to believe that only "Brand A - Type A" xducers will work with "Brand A - Type A" sonars units...Quote:
Originally Posted by justinp61
I am proving that theory incorrect... (In all but a few special cases)...
And I'm actually getting some surprising results...
Besides... I like tearing stuff apart to see how it works... :)
Rickie
Ok, I posted a link on here about a year ago to a thread where a guy was using a LSS transducer on a HB with good results.
And he is still using the LSS 2 on his HB with good results...over a year later...Quote:
Originally Posted by justinp61
These new experimental xducer tests are even more "un-conventional" than that setup...
Rickie
Justin you have a LSS 2...
Which way is front on this beast ...??
Rickie
Rickie,you still need one more transducer added to your setup..it'll be out in October
The end with the cable coming out. On a HDS they will work either way, there is a option in the settings to flip it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rnvinc
Ya I knew the HDS had that option to flip left and right...Quote:
Originally Posted by justinp61
My 1197 doesn't...so I have to get "front to the front" or "right won't be right" and "left wont be left"... :)
Rickie
Rickie ....How did you get it to hook up the HB unit cut the cables, make adapter, or what?
I decided to make an adapter instead of cutting off the connector on the LSS 2 ...Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky
Beings as the LSS 2 does not have a 200kHz 2d beam (and the HB SI requires it for depth)... I used the HB AS SIDB Y cable to make the adapter...
The "Dual Beam" leg of the AS SIDB Y cable hooks directly up to any HB xducer that has 83/200kHz capability to get the 200kHz beam for depth in the HB SI unit..
The "Side Image" leg of the AS SI DB Y cable...I did this to...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps59c7471f.jpg
Then ..I took a Lowrance XT-10BLK extension cable and cut the female end off...
I wired the female end of the Lowrance extension cable to the "Side Image" leg of the HB AS SIDB Y cable that you see in the above pic...
This gave me an adapter cable that would plug into the male connector of the LSS 2 on 1 leg of the AS SIDB Y cable ...and a HB 200Khz Dual Beam xducer on the other leg of the AS SIDB Y cable...
Then it plugs right into the back of my 1197 ...
I'll be posting more pix when I get it a little more "forum ready" ...
Rickie
Here's a picture i took today .I have my transducer tilted 60°..http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/z...pscd059758.png
Here's one more picture from today..http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps148f4306.png
Looking good kosmo ...
Are you using the DI xducer at all now ... Or just the HDSI rotated 60° ...??
Rickie
yes, inquiring minds want to know
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnvinc
Two things to always consider. TX/RX to the correct crystals of equal or near equal frequencies and power. Most all should interchange in some manner. I have a HB skimmer on a low x50. Like Staples says.. "That was easy". Wasn't for explorers, there would be no Ky Lake. Kudos Rickie. Ask Airmar. They useta make transducers for HB and Lowrance. Still make a few I believe.
Hint. Buy transducer extensions and modify the wiring.
The manufacturers generate fuzzy rubber math.....
I agree with buying extensions for modification...(a $70 Lowrance extension cable is much cheaper to sacrifice than a $270 LSS 2 ...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
Thanks for the kudos Tom...:)
I like tearing stuff apart to see what I can make it do ...
Rickie
Right now Im only using the hdsi transducer rotated 60°but I've encountered a problem.my network recognizes the two hdsi transducers that Im using on my two 998s but i can't get the tilted transducer to work threw the console 998. When i click the option to use the front transducer on the console it shows on the network but it still not doing it.When i first installed the front 998 i shared the console transducer with the two units so i no that it did work at one time.