Petition for Boat Ramp Mats and Cleaning Stations at Sardis and Butla

There was a thread going yesterday about the lack of rubber mats on the Sardis and Butla boat ramps and I also commented about wanting some cleaning stations at Sardis and Butla. I contacted the COE offices at both lakes to find out the best way to make these suggestions and who to contact. Below are the Resource Managers for both lakes and their contact info. I am also attaching a copy of the letter I am emailing to both parties today. For those interested in getting either of these upgrades added, these are the people to contact.

Hopefully if we all let our opinions and suggestions be known, we can get some consideration from them. I would suggest writing your own letters to them and passing the contact info on to anyone else you know who wants the mats or cleaning stations installed at these lakes.

Anyone who wants to use mine as a template, feel free to copy and paste it and add your own arguments for adding these items to our lakes. I think the important thing is for us to get in their ear a little and make our desires known. As the sayiung goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Also, if the mods want to sticky this thread, I will post up the reply I get and would encourage others to do the same. We will probably need to keep this going for a while to get results :)

Thanks,
Rob

Who To Contact:
Arkabutla Lake Resource Manager:
Mr. Mike Carter
Arkabutla Lake
3905 Arkabutla Dam Rd
Coldwater, MS 38618
Phone: 662-562-6261
Fax: 662-562-8972
Email: [email protected]

Sardis Lake Resource Manager:
Mr. Alton Pollan
Sardis Lake Field Office
29049 Hwy 315
Sardis MS 38666-3066
Phone: 662-563-4531
Fax: 662-563-4433
Email: [email protected]


This the letter I am sending to both Lake Resource Managers today:


Sardis Lake Resource Manager: Mr. Alton Pollan
Arkabutla Lake Resource Manager: Mr. Mike Carter
Dear sirs,

This letter is being sent to suggest the addition of the rubber ramp mats or adding floating docks to some of the ramps at Sardis and Arkabutla to make the boat launching process a little easier and faster, and hopefully safer for people and their equipment. A list of reasons for wanting these added is provided below. The rubber mats are present at some of the ramps on Enid and Grenada and there are many who would like to see them added at Sardis and Arkabutla as well.
Another item we would like to ask your consideration on adding is fish cleaning stations. I am unaware of any at Arkabutla and only one on the south side of Sardis, but none on the north side.

Reasons To Add Rubber Boat Mats And/Or Docks:
1 – Helps to prevent Keel damage to boats.
2 – Provides a safe place to tie off your boat while launching or loading.
3 – Helps to diminish wait times and congestion at the ramps because people have a place besides the actual launch ramp to leave their boat while they park or retrieve their tow vehicle.
4 – They (rubber mats, not docks) are present on some ramps at Enid and Grenada, but not on any at Sardis or Arkabutla. As a user of Sardis and Arkabutla, this seems unfair to me. Also, on the TVA lakes I have been on, it is harder to find a public ramp without a dock than it is to find one with a dock. Why doesn’t the COE provide this convenience at their ramps?
5 – With the big emphasis on safety that the COE is making with the Life Vest regs and also some of the new tailrace regs (ie: disallowing boat access directly below the dams), it would seem that adding the rubber mats and docks to your launch sites would be a great way to make the ramps safer for users, as opposed to giving people no option other than to leave their boat in the main launching area or on the riprap, which is the only other option at most water levels on every Sardis and Arkabutla ramp that I know of.
6 – This is better for everyone who uses the lake, not just fishermen. All recreational boaters would benefit from this added service.
7 – Best Reason: We are paying for these ramps, these are not truly public ramps, as every FREE (and generally better improved) TVA ramp I have ever launched at is, by the way.

Reasons To Add Cleaning Stations:
- Admittedly, this is only going to benefit the fishermen, not the recreational boaters. This is a major convenience for the fishermen, who are the primary users of the lake for most of the year and therefore fishermen create the most revenue from launch fees as well.
- Even if there was a small fee with an honor box system to pay for use of cleaning stations, I believe most would gladly pay it. Having said that, I believe that the normal launch fees should cover cleaning stations, at least at some ramps.
- Many people come to these lakes from out of state for vacations, and they spend their money while they are here on camping, restaurants, hotels and myriad other activities. These people, and even local people who are camping would benefit greatly by having the cleaning stations.

Summation:
I believe that these lakes are a tremendous asset, but an asset that we are paying to use nonetheless. These improvements are of moderate cost but they would be of tremendous benefit for the users of the lakes.

Thank you for your consideration.

what he said !!

shouldnt the miss. dept. of fish also get involved ? letters to them also ? i mean we paying for all them trucks and pressed shirts/slacks etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joekiller

shouldnt the miss. dept. of fish also get involved ? letters to them also ? i mean we paying for all them trucks and pressed shirts/slacks etc.

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they dont have anything to do with it, strictly COE.

And the COE will tell you that they dont have anything to do with fishing only FLOOD Control!

Thanks for the leg-work Release. I stuck it for you.

Thanks Maj!! Hopefully everyone will take a little time to send an email. I will post up any responses I get to mine and hopefully others will do the same.

Here are a couple of pics that show ramps at Grenada and Enid with the rubber mats, just in case some people haven't seen one before.

Attachment 123659
This picture shows a ramp at Enid during low water. The main concrete ramp is on the left. The rubber pads are located on a false ramp to the right, circled in red. You can leave your boat on the mats while you park or retrieve your tow vehicle without blocking other boats from launching, and without damaging your hull.

Attachment 123660
This picture shows a ramp at Grenada, also at low water. The main concrete ramp is in the center and the rubber mats are on either side of it circled in red.

What ramp is that at Enid?

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Originally Posted by Rees Guide

What ramp is that at Enid?

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McCurdy, on the N side close to the Dam.

I heard back from Mike Carter at Arkabutla today. He said the all of the resource managers are out this week for training but he will contact me next week to discuss it. If anyone else has sent an email and not gotten a reply, that is probably the reason. Also, he told me that a lot of their emails are screened and don't make it through if they are outside of the army email system - I had sent him the pics posted above and they didn't make it through the screening. He seems like a pretty good guy, hopefully I'll have more news next week.

Rob

When all else fails, contact your local senator as well. I have been in contact with mine about the lack of access to lakeview and they will help do a little leg work if you hit a stalemate. While I did not get a satisfactory response about lakeview, I was given specific info that validated the decision made.

Mats are nice but they never put them down far enough to account for low water. Floating docks would be better. Irks me that there are a couple cleaning stations at Sardis but the first time they get stopped up, they just shut them down for the rest of the year. There is a nearly new one on the lower lake and it has been closed all year.

I heard back from Mr. Pollard at Sardis today. I will attach the full response below. To sum it up, I don't think they have the budget to work on the ramps right now,, but he did say that they already have plans to install cleaning stations at Engineers Pt and Teckville.

I haven't heard back from Mr. Carter at Arkabutla this week, I'll post that up when I get it.

Rob

Here's the full response:
Thank you for your recent email and for taking the time to share your ideas
for facility improvements at Sardis Lake. I am familiar with the mats you
referenced at Enid and Grenada. As you noted, they have some significant
benefits for boat launching and retrieval. However, here at Sardis their
installation would also pose some problems.

The locations at Enid and Grenada where the mats are currently in use were
chosen in part because the topography of the sites made the installation and
use of the mats there feasible. A very gradual slope is wanted. This is a
safety issue. Like other surfaces exposed to marine environments, the rubber
mats can become very slick from immersion and algae build up. Gradual slopes
makes it easier for users to keep their footing even when the mats are
slick. Most of the ramps here at Sardis, including such popular launching
sites as Engineer Point, are built on steeper slopes. Installing such mats
at a ramp here might therefore require significant site prep work and
additional expense.

Even if we could find a suitable location to use the matting, such a project
would be hard to justify on a cost/ benefit basis and is unlikely to be
considered in the near term. As you may know, budgets are tight right now
and funding limited. This is likely to continue for some time. Trying to put
our limited resources where they can do the most good unfortunately means
that some things won't get done.

I'm afraid the floating docks you suggested are also unlikely. I have seen
them elsewhere and agree that they too can be useful. One of the big issues
with them is maintenance. On a lake that fluctuates as much as Sardis there
would be a need to frequently make inspections, adjust ramps and anchors,
etc. We just don't have the personnel to do that right now. Cuts in
personnel here have made even keeping the grass trimmed a challenge.

In your email you make reference to "paying for these ramps." I assume you
are referring to the boat launching fees charged by the Corps. I bring it up
only to say that while we collect user fees at Sardis and the other lakes we
do not get to retain any portion of them for use locally. All that money is
deposited into the U.S. Treasury and would not generally be available to
complete the kinds of projects you've mentioned. Such funds would have to
come instead out of the lake's regular operating budget.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to be more encouraging regarding some of your
suggestions. However, in closing I would like to offer what I hope will be
some welcome news regarding fish cleaning stations. Here at Sardis we
recently partnered with John Kyle State Park to add a new fish cleaning
station adjacent to the Lower Lake boat ramp. We are currently planning to
install two more over the coming months. The units themselves have already
been purchased and are in storage awaiting shelter buildings, tanks, etc.
These new cleaning stations are slated for locations at Teckville Landing
and Engineer Point.

Thanks again for your suggestions. If I or my staff can be of further
assistance please don't hesitate to contact me.



Sincerely,

Alton W. Pollan
Resource manager

Nice reasonable response from Mr. Pollan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by majflyboy

Nice reasonable response from Mr. Pollan.

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+1, I thought he gave a great explanation and obviously put some thought and time into it. I'm impressed with the resource managers at both lakes, both appear to be very thoughtful and competent.

Could they possibly move some of the rip rap where you could put your boat up to the bank adjacent to or near the ramp. That would sure be better than putting it on that rough concrete. Would make it a lot better when picking up passengers or parking the truck or whatever.

Noticed the mats at Grenada

that is a first class cleaning station on sardis lower lake in jk campground. if they can put one there they ought to be able to have one at every lake. it was working fine in march. where is another one at sardis?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mississippi

that is a first class cleaning station on sardis lower lake in jk campground. if they can put one there they ought to be able to have one at every lake. it was working fine in march. where is another one at sardis?

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Clear Creek ramp I know, and I've heard there is one at Pat's Bluff which is only right across the mouth of Clear Creek from there. It will be nice to have one at Engineers and Teckville though, I use those ramps a lot more coming from the N side.

Every time I went by any of the cleaning stations at Sardis this year, they were closed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by feelay

Every time I went by any of the cleaning stations at Sardis this year, they were closed.

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I would send that comment to Mr. Pollard, his info is at the top of the thread :)

I saw the COE contract folks working on the Clear Creek cleaning station last week. I'm pretty sure it is open now.

I'd like to see at least one floating dock at each lake when they get the funds for it. Maybe two for some lakes with two big ramps like at Sardis. Ex. Have one at Engineers and one at Holiday

Funny how they had about ten million dollars to build new offices at Arkabutla, Enid, and Sardis; to sit in and send us emails saying there are not enough funds for docks or mats. Funny how that works.

I will try to find out what their decision making process is, I assume these types of projects are voted on by committee or something. I'm not sure if getting signatures on a petition would help, or if they have public meetings, etc.

I do know that these two gentlemen are a great place to start in terms of sending in your letters and suggestions. I strongly urge everyone who is interested in this to take a minute and send them an email or make a phone call. I believe if they start hearing about this from different people it will be more likely to get serious consideration.

I heard back from Mr. Carter at Butla today, the email is attached below. They seem to be considering it as a possibility, but availability of funds will ultimately be the deciding factor.

Rob


Rob,

I have spoken with the manager at Enid lake about what he has installed as well as the Project Management Office. They say what they have will only work in a long gradual slope. I'll be checking further this Summer and if we are able to afford to do something and it's practical it'll be toward the end of our FY (Sept 30th) before that can happen. Execution of Federal budgets is not easy these days. As of today, May 10th, we do not have a budget awarded to us that should have been provided by October 1st when the fiscal year started. We'll have 4 1/2 months to execute a 12 month budget and this is something that isn't budgeted for. The only way we'll be able to afford it is if we have fallout money from labor due to vacancies and/or deployments.

I'll keep you posted as we get closer to the end of the year. Dub Patton seems to be a possibility but we'll have to check on that further when the time comes.

Thanks,
Mike

Michael Carter
Resource Manager
Arkabutla Lake
662-562-6261 Ext. 14586
662-292-1980 Cell
[email protected]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by feelay

Mats are nice but they never put them down far enough to account for low water. Floating docks would be better. Irks me that there are a couple cleaning stations at Sardis but the first time they get stopped up, they just shut them down for the rest of the year. There is a nearly new one on the lower lake and it has been closed all year.

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Based on the responses I've gotten, it looks like slope is a big factor with the mats. I'm guessing they only have them at the higher parts of the ramps for that reason. I think they feel like the rubber on a steeper grade is actually more slippery and dangerous than just concrete.

LongBranch at Enid would fit this requirement fine. It is long sloping bank.

This is another email from Mike Carter at Arkabutla. I asked him how they made the decisions on these types of projects, whether signed petitions or attending committee meetings would help, etc... His answer was very interesting. Apparently they like to do partnerships with public groups. Read the email below and if anyone is interested in trying to get a volunteer group from CDC or one of the crappie clubs in the area, this may be a great way to get this, or even other projects of interest, done.


Rob,

I'm new to this District and Arkabutla Lake in general, but not new to the Corps. From my overall experience with working with the government, petitions are not really the preferred way to go if you actually want to get something accomplished. Congressional inquiries get people's immediate attention but ultimately are answered at the project level and sent back up through the chain of command to the congressional district office. I've been working for the Corps for 23 years and have not attended any public meetings because they are few and far between at least out at the field level.

What works better than anything I've seen lately is partnerships, cost shares, etc. For instance, if a local bass/crappie club or any other formalized group of people work together and write a formal letter to the Corps suggesting an idea and/or a willingness to help those suggestions tend to get a lot of consideration. For instance, the group/club could suggest that they'd like to see the rubber mats installed at a ramp and would be willing to supply the labor to install the mats if the Corps was willing to buy them. The Corps can actually submit packages for those things to be funded "outside" our normal budget package. Partnerships are good and look good for all so they get a lot of consideration.

Hope this helps,
Mike

Michael Carter
Resource Manager
Arkabutla Lake
662-562-6261 Ext. 14586
662-292-1980 Cell
[email protected]

Thanks for the sticky Maj, but you may as well take it off now. There is obviously no one else on the board who is interested in this.

Thanks,
Rob

Got it covered Rob.