Freshly painted heads have the pox

I powdercoated about 50 heads last night and probably half of them are pockmarked like crazy, even after curing. I did a handful last week after I got my fluid bed together with the same batch of powder and didn't have a single one turn out like this. Even multiple dips wouldn't fix it. I used two different batches of heads bought from two different people at two different times. Both batches did it. One of the batches was used for the test samples last week.

Any ideas as to what may be going on here? I'm sure the fish won't care but it looks like garbage.

show a pic, but sounds like you got some moisture in the paint, and its balling up.

This happened with some freshly opened jars as well. I started out with the fresh ones and went back to the previous jar thinking that the new ones may have issues, but it wasn't the case. All have been stored indoors with the lids tightly closed.

Heating the jigheads way to hot maybe??

I was wondering if it might be a heat issue. This is my first run at powdercoating.

I think to much heat also. What size jig are you using and what heat source. I use a alcohol burner and the heat times run 1/32 and smaller -1 second, 1/16 -2 seconds, 1/8 - 3 seconds and 1/4 -4 seconds. If painting chartreuse take 1/2 second off the time or you will get to much paint on the heads and it will bubble up.

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Originally Posted by STUMP HUNTER

I think to much heat also. What size jig are you using and what heat source. I use a alcohol burner and the heat times run 1/32 and smaller -1 second, 1/16 -2 seconds, 1/8 - 3 seconds and 1/4 -4 seconds. If painting chartreuse take 1/2 second off the time or you will get to much paint on the heads and it will bubble up.

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Nice to get a time frame, i been heating ALOT longer than that with a cig lighter, and OK results.

jigs may also have oils on them make sure they are clean .......... and dry

Like Short grub sounds more like oil to me. Take a couple from one batch clean 2 with alcohol and let dry paint them and 2 more not cleaned and see if will make a difference.

I thought about the oil too. I will try to clean some of the next batch that I coat.

I painted 1/16 and 1/8 heads. I averaged 4 to 5 seconds over a heat gun set on low. If I went any less than that, I was only getting a dusting on the head requiring multiple dunks in the powder.

Not hot enough sounds like.need to be hot enough to melt the powder paint onto the lead. alos may not be stirring the powder paint good.Has to be stirred real fine powder.hope this helps!!

I'll bet any amount of money the problem is you're heating the head too long before dipping. If the lead isn't hot enough, the paint won't stick. If it's too hot, the paint bubbles and leaves a rough finish.

Times depend a lot on what kind of heat source you're using. When I was using a heat gun, 1 second per side was plenty. When I switched to an alcohol burner running denatured alcohol, it was one and a half seconds per side. Last time I refilled it with 70% isopropyl alcohol just to see if it would work, and the time jumped to 3 seconds per side because the flame wasn't as hot.

Err on the lesser side, because you can always re-dip if it's not hot enough where overheating will ruin the paint no matter how many coats you put on. Are you getting little poofs of smoke when you run it through the powder? If so, that's another sign it's too hot.

I have seen the little poofs of smoke on occasion. Also some stringing here and there. I'll cut back on the heat time during the next batch too.

Try you some of these to heat your jig heads with, works best for me. Your mileage may vary.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02...03_300X300.jpg

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Originally Posted by stickum

Try you some of these to heat your jig heads with, works best for me. Your mileage may vary.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02...03_300X300.jpg

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So true!! :):) I have used a heat gun, candle, a small propane torch and tried a lighter but the Al lamp has worked the best for me. I agree to try less heat first because you can put the head back over you heat to set the paint if the head isn't hot enough.

What's the advantage of the sterno over a heat gun? Heat is heat, isn't it? I figured with the heat gun that it would eliminate any potential problems from combustion contamination.

I use a heat gun myself. When i dip it a give it a quick flip an pull it out. If its not glossy i reheat it a little and make it shine. then the next one i hold over it a sec longer. And just adjust till i get the right amount of time heating it

Would still help for you to post some pics of what you originally posted about. Poc marks - we can help more when we see more.

How many setting are on your heat gun? No all heat isn't the same.

Low and high.

Please explain how all heat sources are not the same (soot as a result of the fuel being used aside). Any of them should bring the lead to the correct temp. It is just a function of how closely you hold it to the source and how long you keep it there. No?

Figure it out yourself.

Are you heating the painting it and holding it over the heat source again?

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Originally Posted by STUMP HUNTER

Figure it out yourself.

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Wow. Thank you, Mr. Super Moderator. Much appreciate the help and explanation. I do understand thermal transfer. Heat is heat but if you have something other to offer up as to a difference in the heat source and it's effect on powder paint, I'm all ears.

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Originally Posted by CrappieStalker1

Are you heating the painting it and holding it over the heat source again?

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I only did that attempting to flow the paint that screwed up but it didn't help. I dipped 10, 1/4 oz heads today. The only issue that I had today was the blue glow powder that a buddy gave me to try out. It didn't gloss over, even after curing, but then again... maybe that color isn't supposed to.

I think everyone stepped up to try to help you out. I feel as you are not taking the info you have been given and putting it to use. All of us want you to become a better jig maker, painter and I believe I have helped you as much as I can. Everyone know that if you hold anything over heat sooner or later it will get hot. The trick is to find the heat source that works best for you. Because it works for someone else doesn't mean it is the best choice for everyone. I used a heat gun for a long time but when I changed over to the burner my painting improved. Maybe trying some of the other heat sources may help you, maybe not. This is not rocket science, if it was you would need to talk to Cane Pole.
You act like I didn't help you at all. Read over the post from the beginning, you have had help from many great painters.

You simply said "No all heat isn't the same." and left it at that. I am attempting to learn why that would be so. In my mind, all of the heat sources would do the same thing and it would just be a matter of tweaking how long you held the jig over all of them to get the same desired temperature. If I am incorrect in that assumption, I would just like to know why. I am painting heads solely for myself so there is not really a whole lot of trial and error that can take place before I have more heads painted than I would use in the next 5 years before I get the technique down.

One other variable that I didn't think of was from the first batch to the second (the one with the pock marks), I went from using a copy paper filter media to a porous plastic. The plastic gives you a much more even "boil" and really allows you to throw the air to it without it puffing out of the top of the cup. Now I wonder if it was a combination of too much initial heat and too much fluff in the powder...

I wouldn't think to much fluid would cause that problem. Just the opposite, the more fluff the more even and lighter coat you would get with a better looking paint job. Once again to much heat or dirty. I pour and paint just for myself also and have more jigs than I could use in what fishing life I have left. I do it because I enjoy doing it. I give some of mine away to friends or people at the ramp I meet who look like they might appreciate some and maybe can't afford them. Several folks on here work with youth programs that would probably appreciate a few dozen. Practice and you will get it worked out. Then you will be buying more paint,mixing your own colors and things like that.

I can understand why Stump said figure it out. Two comments you've made show 2 different problems:

"Only getting a dusting on the head requiring multiple dunks in the powder" This says not enough heat.

"Little poofs of smoke on occasion, also some stringing". This is automatically too much heat.

I asked you several times to post a pic of your first jigs with the poc marks!! That would have told us alot!!! just by seeing them.

I'm gonna tell you a scenario - which I have posted on here many times. Toaster ovens - you set at 350 to cure - okay do you absolutely know it's at 350??? NO!!! Guys over at Tackle Underground did a bunch of tests where they put an inside thermometer in the toaster ovens - some were as much as 40 degrees off!!!!!!

Same with Heat Guns - If you get one that's set for 750 and someone else has a better one and there's runs basic at 900, their count time is going to be different than yours.

If you get a jig that looks powdery put it over the heat gun and roll it till the powder glazes over. I've been powdering for years and I still have some I have to do this with. There's a difference in powder between ProTec and powders from rosys, columbia etc.

This isn't an exact science - and I deal with making glitter coats and two tone and three tone jigs.

CadMan at Tackle Underground has this as his quote "Practice, Practice, Practice and when you think you've got it practice some more"!!!! He's a great painter but even he still learns things from others.

We can keep giving you all kinds of tips and what to watch for - but until you just sit down and start working at it you'll never get it. This isn't a crack at you but the flat truth - I didn't get to where I'm at with powder painting without all the help the guys here and there gave me, but until I plunked my butt down and worked at it I didn't get better. The heads I screwed up IMO I gave to my nephews and they used them, they didn't care what color they were. I'm alot better now, and have added the glitters and multi-colors and mixing for different colors.

Practice buddy that's what you really need to do!!!

Only the glow heads its best to have a white base coat.

Poc marks? Could be using scented candles to flux the lead or even contact with a waxy surface. Is the head shiny or oxidized? Some guys "age" their heads so they aren't all shiny, then who knows whats used. Try the same heads after buffing with brillo pads or steel wool and see if it happens again, if it does you've probably got a perfume problem from wax.

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Originally Posted by Quackrstackr

Wow. Thank you, Mr. Super Moderator. Much appreciate the help and explanation. I do understand thermal transfer. Heat is heat but if you have something other to offer up as to a difference in the heat source and it's effect on powder paint, I'm all ears.



I only did that attempting to flow the paint that screwed up but it didn't help. I dipped 10, 1/4 oz heads today. The only issue that I had today was the blue glow powder that a buddy gave me to try out. It didn't gloss over, even after curing, but then again... maybe that color isn't supposed to.

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Whattt weee have herrrre is a failurrrre to commmmunicate! :Rofl

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Quack -- Everything takes practice - I was once told when you do something about 10,000 times you'll start to reach the top.

I know I have trashed a few eyes and next year when I pour and paint everything I am prepared to trash a few more. Give those away!

Next time it will definitely help to POST A PIC!

But hang in there you will get it. This forum is outstanding and there are some extremely talented and willing people here to help.

The heads were already in my box under my covered boat when I started the thread and I'm too lazy to go dig them out. rotfl I can never remember to take a picture of some of them when I'm out fishing.

If you've ever painted or sprayed water on something that had a little oil on it and saw the liquid disperse from that spot, that's what I was getting in multiple pinpoint size locations. It hasn't happened since with no real change in the way I'm doing things so it has left me scratching my head. I did a couple of hundred for a forum member last week and didn't notice it happening on any of those either.

:dono

Don't know if this has been mentioned (I too am lazy and would rather wait for the movie than read the book) but from the sound of it, I had a similar problem and found it was because I had handled the jigs by the lead head before heating and oil/whatever was transferred from my nasty little finger's to the lead head. I don't handle the jigs with anything but forceps now and no more problem's.

Okay, one point I learned about heat sources. Candles heat even and slow, stove burners fast and uneven, butane lighters slow and had a lot of problems if I was using it too long. Torch lighters would melt an eye hole before the jig head would heat up evenly. Large wick candles would leave too much soot and ruin any paint job I tried. Too much humidity in the house on a day after I made dinner and boiled something ruined everything I powder painted.

Painting after I had eaten anything greasy and not washing my hands would leave bald spots and pot marks. Peeling citrus fruit or a banana between paint jobs, better off painting the fruit peels.

I plan on getting an alcohol burner and hopefully it will be my last purchase for powder painting everything. I love candles but trying to keep an even flame for a long period is a pain. It is slower no doubt but for me it will be the best way and safest. For you, a heat gun might be best.

You really have to experiment and find what works for you the best and that way you have a second best way to fall back on. I tried a heat gun, melted 4 consecutive heads in less than a second at 1/8 ounce and will not use one again. I shake too much to be using one anyway and with little ones around the alcohol burner is so much safer and they can even help when I use it.

There are a hundred different things that can affect your painting, 75 of them won't tell you what you did wrong and you may never know what causes it.

I had a batch of spinner blades that I did and about an hour later I did another batch. The first 25 had streaks, holes, pot marks and everything else when cured. The other 25 did not and came out perfect. I was lucky to figure out what caused it. The first 25 I had pet my dog right before starting and touched the blades all over the place. In the hour between I had lunch and washed my hands. I touched my dog the next day and touched a spinner blade and it left oil marks all over them. Dumb luck I figured it out, most of the time I chalk it to Murphy's law and don't even look for an explanation unless one seems completely obvious.

Ok that one's a first for me hearing it - I've never had a problem with touching the heads or blades before powdering and mine all come out fine. Now really think about this - you pour your jigs, you use needle nose to grip the sprue to get them out but when you go to take the sprue off what are you holding??? The head of the jig. When you store the jigs in a bag before painting you pick them up to put them in the bag - so there is already something on the head of the jig when you go to powder them and washing your hands isn't going to change that.

With lighters no matter what kind when you light it the middle section when you look at a bic or grill lighter flame looks clear and that's were the level heat source is, if you're moving the lighter and not the jig or blade it's not perfectly in the heat part of it and you get a hot section and less hot section on what you're heating. I've talked to the guys that use alcohol burners and they really like them but I (and that's me) feel safer with the heat gun, and even between models they are different!!! I use a cheap little Wagner dual heat gun that ran me $21 at Home Depot - I've melted a few heads off because I wasn't paying attention!!

I agree with fish for all 100%!! YOU have to find the heat source that works best for you!! but you also have to learn by trial and error how long to heat by each size head your powdering, then dip, and that's just solid colors!! Do two or three colors, or glitter coats and it's a whole new ball-game!!!

I'll also say this - don't expect to go out buy powder and a heat source and nail it 100% the first time!!!!!! Even after 20 years of using it I still get some nose nipples!!!LOL and recently learned again the hard way about Dormant powder paints!!! I heated the head dipped it and looked back after answering my wife I thought I forgot to dip the head!!!! NOPE!! Dormants even though they show color in the jar they go on with a silver type finish - you then have to cure them for 10 mins, then re-dip in clear coat to bring out the color!!!

I dipped the color a bit of a re-heat then clear coated and cured at one time and the colors came out really nice, 4 out of the 5 colors that I picked in the Sample pack came out looking like the web site example. The only one that didn't was the Hunter Green - so you'll find the Dormant Powders double the work if you do it by the book!!