Ben knows.
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Ben knows.
you mean criminals break laws? (sarcasm) im so shocked
You got that right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
"Gun control to end violence is like abolishing trailer parks to prevent tornadoes."
Instead of putting so much energy toward gun control, why don't folks try to use some of their energy, trying to to help the mentally ill, or the physically challenged, or homeless folks, and those less fortunate, Just maybe that would be what it takes to get us back on the right track. Merry Christmas, and God Bless our troops.
Govt can't control guns. They can only control willing citizens.
An armed citizen makes good criminal control
A REASONABLY armed citizen, yes. A citizen armed with weapons that do MORE harm than the criminal-NO.
Uhhh, Lowell .... exactly WHAT weapons are you referring to, when you say "weapons that do MORE harm than the criminal" ?? Do you honestly think that criminals have a creed that says they can't carry certain weapons, or specific calibers, when committing their crimes ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowellhturner
You do know that Mafia hitmen preferred using a 22cal pistol :Doh:
It's not what gun you have that makes you a criminal, nor is it how many bullets it holds or how fast you can fire them, it's the mental attitude of the person using the gun to commit the crime !!
... cp :kewl
Well said, crappiepappy.
more people are killed in the US every year by drunk drivers than by guns, funny I don't see the liberals scrambling to ban alcohol or cars.
You ever meet a liberal with any walking around sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe
If I ever come up against a criminal, I sure hope my weapon is bigger & better than the criminals. You know, like a broom against a shotgun?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowellhturner
Exactly what is wrong with America. Everyone is bad mouthing the left or the right. What happened to working together. Matter of fact I have met lots of Democrats with walking around sense, and alot of Republicans. Whats that got to do with anything? Seems like folks have forgotten how to work together, live together, and make things happen. Im a democrat, some of my best buds are republicans. I sure wouldnt kick them to the curb for what party they belong to. Good grief.
That is incorrect in a couple of ways. Automobile accidents do kill more Americans every year than guns do, but the drunk drivers do not. Actually deaths due to drunk driving have decreased by over 50% since the early 80's. There were actually more gun homocides in 2010 than fatalities due to drunk driving with homocide only being about 1/3 of all gun deaths..Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe
Drunk Driving Fatalities - National Statistics | Century Council
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
We have made dramatic progress in reducing total deaths due to drunk driving, not just on a statistical level, as a nation, although though not enough.
We have another problem in that statistics about gun deaths are all over the place depending on who is publishing them.
These are a good place to start (and about as likely to be objective as any):
FASTSTATS - Injuries
FASTSTATS - Homicide
This is a good background cite:
FBI — Uniform Crime Reports
One thing that stands out is that adolescents and young adults both commit most of the gun crimes and are the most common victims. They have been responsible for most all of the mass shootings as well. Perhaps that is where we need to start, sorta like managing the age for legal drinking.
Something I found, unsure of the stats
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb1b1ca4d.jpg
law enter is a Sanfrancisco, ca liberal org. Facts=fiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by no1son
liquor lobby just like the tobacco lobby. for money not for good of the people
CDC and FBI sometimes ok.
Then I want a nuclear weapon or biological weapons, but only for "self defense". Tell me WHY I SHOULDN`T be allowed to own them, especially if i live next door to you. If there is NO logical "upper limit' as to YOUR potential fire power then there should be NONE on me either. And I WANT more firepower than you...but ONLY so I feel "safer" than you...bad enough the world`s nations are having arms races, but I guess we can bring it down to a NEIGHBORHOOD level.
31% of all traffic fatalities are due to drunk drivers. 69% are due to stupidity, lets fine the sheet out of those people as well. Seems we need more drunks on the road. Dude, compare apples to apples
The most dangerous place for a human is in the womans womb, lets not forget ignorant doctors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe
neither is a firearm there for not covered by 2A......pretty simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by Lowellhturner
Here are the real murderers. Close to a million per year. CDC report. Somewhat ok. Coat hangers responsible for more mass murders than guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by no1son
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2009
Murder Chart
How many abortions are performed at each stage of pregnancy?
The following table lists both the percentage of abortions performed during various stages of pregnancy, along with the total yearly abortions at each stage, based on a total of 1.2 million abortions per year.
Gestational Age Percentage Yearly Total Less than 9 weeks 61.8% 749,232 9-10 weeks 17.1% 207,312 11-12 weeks 9.1% 110,324 13-15 weeks 6.6% 80,015 16-20 weeks 3.8% 46,069 21+ weeks 1.5% 18,185 Source: Guttmacher Institute, 2011, August. Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States. [PDF]
Definition of HOMICIDE
1
: a person who kills another
2
: a killing of one human being by another
"By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception." Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic
Lot of difference having a gun for self protection or home protection or self defense. How did you go from armed citizen to nuclear weapons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowellhturner
I got a tater gun and a water balloon gun. Tater gun will put a hurt on you. No Nukes yet.
--Quote:
Originally Posted by Crappie 1
Haven't read anything about why folks like to keep guns but I doubt protecting ones self from another person who wishes to do him harm is the major reason we keep firearms, I would suspect the number one reason is we simply like them, that seems to me the only reason anybody would have an assault weapon or a nuke, I personally don't see the reason why anybody would have a use for either.
I think one needs to read on what classifies a gun as an assault weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLeonard
I don't hunt anymore, don't know or care about assault weapons. I do carry a .32 Beretta Tom Cat for personal protection. My wife and I spend a good share of time in and around the Natl. Forests, and remote lakes by ourselves. A guy tried to drown 2 people a couple years back at one of the boat launches.. I took the CCW class and started caring for our protection outside and inside the home. I'm 67 years old and I feel like it gives me an option and peace of mind when were out and about. Protecting my wife and I is the only reason I carry.Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLeonard
judging by your post my guess is you have never fired a nice so called "assault rifle" IE an AR-15.........an AR is an extreemly fun firearm to target shoot with, reasonalbe as far as ammo cost to shoot, zero recoil, an extreemly accurate.......has nothing to do with anything other than the fun factor for the vast majority of folks who own them........much like a 1911 Kimber, or a Colt python, if you havent fired one you wouldnt understandQuote:
Originally Posted by HLLeonard
And that's you're choice. But don't tell me how to make mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLeonard
Same reasons here. However, I do own a "long distance" calling card for big game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crappie 1
I use to have have multiple handguns when I was younger and lived in a much rougher area. It's amazing how kids can snap you out of the invincible mode to the over protective mother and father. I sold my handguns when my son came along because I didn't want an accident involving my son and any of my handguns. I kept my 22 and 12 ga for sporting and self defense use. The 12 ga has the 18 1/2 barrel for close range spread of 00 buck shot kept close at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLeonard
Have I had to use either in a self defense situation...No. But then again I have never needed to use life insurance either and I still have it.
I understand your opinion and I do respect it. I just don't agree with it (that's my opinion).
Sorry Cane Pole but you are off topic for the following reason:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
The 1973 Supreme Court defined first trimester abortion as not criminal and there for not criminally homocide.
BTW not only is life present from conception, it is present before conception and must be from both parents or there is no conception. Life does not begin at conception in any case, it continues through it.
The real question is where does that life begin to accumulate a unique personhood enough to enable society to begin to assign it rights, a process that does not actually complete until decades later anyway. Western society for millenia has assigned the point of actual right accumulation to start at birth, with some additional protections prior to that as successful delivery becomes more and more likely. But that is a subject for another thread, too.
FWIW I have no problem with the moderators declaring both of our posts on this to be off topic and pull them. In fact they should and warn us both. The actual issue at hand is an important one in its own right and should not be sidetracked.
Here the question is gun control, and not even absolute one way or the other, but rather how much and which firearms are to be included or require modification and in which ways and what reasons for whatever degree in either direction. By itself it is a wide open and very controversial issue and we need to remain on topic, if there is to be any progress here or anywhere else.
Comment about the drunk driver stats...
Not picking apart the stats but simply asking the question of why do we have a 50% decrease in fatalities since the 80's? Two reasons...every car now has air bags and it was federally mandated for everyone to wear seat belts.
If we applied the same safety measures towards guns then stores should only sell rubber bullets and everyone should be federally mandated to wear bullet proof vests. What would those gun fatality stats show... I know it is extreme but I had to throw something out there to be sarcastic.
I feel quite sure that one day we will need bullet proof vests. Literally
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijimbo
I do not see the need to ban private ownership of firearms whether for sport shooting, hunting or for self protection. I also do not see the problem with licensing each one for particular purposes nor for limiting magazine or clip capacity in part depending on the use intended. The government already knows who has most of the non-criminal firearms in this country and by any kind of sophisticated public Internet search can actually identify who has purchased or received what for modification with that giving grounds for ATF search warrants simply on that basis. Anybody with a conceal/carry permit is automatically identifiable.
I do not see the big deal over permanent semi-automatic guns either, like the so called assault rifles. All they really are is nothing more than a modified copy of military weapons that are designed to be rugged, accurate and dependable, the same qualities that would make them good choices for private purchases. I do have a very big problem with large capacity clips and conversion kits that change them to automatic fire. There is no need for them in any private issue, they are banned for hunting already in nearly every state, and are actually in the way for most pure target shooting.
Most importantly however is that there are some individuals in this country who should not under any circumstances have access to firearms, but sorting them out from the rest of us with legitimate purposes is going to be a very difficult task. Most of the damage those persons cause come from a small group of mostly adolescent and young men who are both the most common violators and the most common victims, with the worst cases generally being suicides planned to have dramatic impacts on innocent strangers.
That's where I would start to deal with gun crime, and those have to be caught ahead of time, since the worst of them are already planning not to be taken alive in the first place; so penalties for commission are irrelevant to them. Guns are already the prime tool in most suicides anyway, whether or not someone else is killed first.
That aint gonna help you if the shooter is a good shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishingpox
This....YesQuote:
Originally Posted by jeepguyjames
Excellent point Cane Pole. +/- 3,500 babies are murdered every day in the U.S. through abortion (legally) and no one bats an eye. Where is the media on this?
According to all the data I see, the opposite is true, with self-protection actually becoming less necessary in most areas. There are some exceptions, including areas with high levels of gang activity, but that is mostly urban and residents generally identify those areas pretty easily and can stay out of them. That is called street smarts and you pick that up pretty quickly in the city. Those who live there but are not involved tend to develop a sort of radar and keep their heads down when something is afoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishingpox
The supreme court ain't God. God said "Thou shall not kill". Some folks seem to always leave out facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by no1son
I started this thread and I take it where I so desire.
EXACTLY !!! .... those guns being used, for these mass killings, are semi-automatics. An assault rifle has the option to be semi-auto or auto. The rifles are just designed to LOOK like an assault rifle ... not operate as one.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishingpox
The mass murdering whacko's could have just as easily packed in a semi-automatic hand gun & a couple of pockets full of loaded clips ... and still done the same damage. No "sane" person does these types of things, so it wouldn't matter if they couldn't purchase or steal a gun ... they'd just use some other type of weapon.
... cp :kewl