What would be the chance of raising the size on truman lake from 9 to 10. Moved here from stockton and there is alot of difference in the size of the fish.
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What would be the chance of raising the size on truman lake from 9 to 10. Moved here from stockton and there is alot of difference in the size of the fish.
I do not manage Truman and I will ask Mike Bayless about the population but Truman traditionally is one of our best crappie lakes in the state. One thing I have found in the last ten years is anglers have become much more self-regulating when taking crappie home. In years when crappie have grown well and there are lots of 10 inchers available, anglers will generally throw back 9 inch fish. When growth is slower and the majority of fish are 9 inches anglers will harvest them. This has changed the need for raising the length limit from 9 to 10 in some lakes in my opinion. Truman has lots of big crappie and is generally viewed as a better crappie lake than Stockton. Crappie populations can fluctuate significantly from year to year but I heard nothing but good reports out of Truman. It might just take you a while to get as proficient on Truman as you were on Stockton. Good luck.
I would like to see the minimum limit set at 10 inches on Truman. I must say tho, that is the first post I remember ever seeing that suggests that Stockton crappie are larger than Truman crappie as a whole.
Thank you for your quick reply. I lived in stockton, since 98 and moved here to warsaw in nov 2011. Fished for walleye from mar. 1st. till opening day firearm deer season and then it crappie time. Was not saying stockton has bigger crappie just that there was a lot of difference between the two sizes. Have caught some nice crappie here though. Just have to figure out the walleye pattern. Only have fished around the shawnee bend area.
What is the "difference between the two sizes" if you weren't saying one was bigger than the other? I'm not trying to argue with you. Just trying to understand your post better. You'll find better quality fish on the Grand Arm and Osage Arm on Truman. Good luck to you on your quest and welcome to the board.
Good post and welcome. Like the man said, some of us self regulate. My fish measuring cup has a mark at 9.5 and if there isn't plenty of tail fin past that I don't mess with it. Tough days can make it tempting for some, but I've not had a problem staying well stocked in the freezer.
What I meant was that there was more meat on a 10 inch one. that's all. My measuring boards are also cut to 9 and half. I do not want to step on anyone toes while in the service I guess I stood to close to things that went boom in the night and somtimes just have trouble explaining myself. If you all happen to see a red lund tiller around the shawnee bend area stop by and say hi.
I think everyone here will agree that a crappie really isn't worth taking home until it has 'shoulders', and they don't get big across the back until they are about 10". That's why Jake referred to 'self-regulation'. But there are so many fisherman who want to take fish home no matter what. They take the fish we pass on. The MDC is very pro-active on our reservoirs in regard to balancing fishermen/women demands and keeping a healthy population. The years when there are fewer 10" + fish around usually mean there has been a very good year class previously....during those years, some of us hardly see bigger fish, but you can bet they'll be back!
One reason for that length is that in Mo a 9" fish is sexually mature and able to spawn. What if the length was raised and we had year after year of high recruitment? We may have lakes overrun with 8" crappie.....potato chips!
You haven't stomped any toes that I can tell, but some toes are bigger than others and just can't be missed....keep asking good questions and thank you for your service!
Had not thought about the over population, and you are right on that. and your welcome
truman13, welcome. Some fish for consumption, some for sport or a combination of both. I'd like a Truman 12" length limit, could care less if I keep fish or not but know it probably isn't realistic. MDC has many people to please, kinda like herding cats. I may not personally agree with them but wouldn't want their job either. At some time you have to trust people that write the laws. Not that they're infallible, politics has proven that time and time again in the last few years but at this time I'd take MDC's record over most politicians. If they want to run for president I'd vote for em. :)
guess I will chime in,,,, I have fished stockton for over 30 years, I have fished truman for over 4 years, but barely. having said that, I see no reason to raise the length limit on truman, Lower it on Stockton yes. truman lake has one heck of a fish population second to none, stockton is just an alright lake most of the time, about every 3 to 5 years stockton has a banner year, were due in a couple more years......... but questions like yours keeps us thinking and talking and advising, and that is a good thing. as far as the walley on truman, kinda hit and miss. good luck and always keep an extra samich with you, I get hungry after a hard day of missing fish........ freezer is empty,
Another reason you see a 9 inch length limit more often as you move north in MO is the length of the growing season. We had placed a 10 inch limit on Smithville back in the mid 80's after the crappie fishery was severely overharvested after the lake opened. New lakes are very productive and we had a lot of big crappie when the lake opened and it got hammered. After evaluating the 10 inch limit and the slower growth of crappie when compared with southern reservoirs we reduced the length limit to 9 inches. This has proven the right length limit at Smithville. Truman is located right on the edge of the transition from a southern to a northern reservoir. While a 10 inch might be ok, Truman also has much greater lake level fluctuations and that can cause big year classes and small year classes from time to time. These swings in year class strength reduce the likelihood of stunting. Length limits serve to smooth out the affects of year class strength too. This helps keep from having poor fishing 3-4 years following a poor year class. Truman is probably the best reservoir crappie fishing in the state year to year. I guess my point is if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
MO,
Is this is reasoning (north/south) as to why there isn't a length limit at all on Mark Twain. This is my home lake and it KILLS me to see people keeping the 7-8" fish and then complain about not having the size? I'm not suggesting a 10" limit because the majority of people would fail to fill their limit, but I think a 9" limit would be reasonable. I assure you that there are plenty of bigger fish in this lake........
This discussion has been beat to death I know, specifically regarding Twain, but I don't see much of a difference in the two lakes (Truman v. Twain) outside of geography....referring to the point they are Corp. lakes and the management of these lakes should mirror itself being in the same state.
U
I don't fish that often for my freezer. I would always rather catch one 12 inch fish over six 9 inch fish and I believe a 10 inch limit would improve the quality of fish being caught. Just my 2 cents.......and that's prolly worth about 1/4 cent in this economy.
I would like to see the length limit grow over the next few years if the cllimate and fish are able to handle larger length limit. look at the mississippi lakes and how many people travel there just to catch bigger fish. we put a point restriction on deer and for what reason, (bigger is better). The revenue created state wide from travel expences to out of state license to hotel stays would be great plus the chance to catch a wall hanger would be awsome benefits!! The key factor is will our climate sustain a larger fish growth season to handle an average fish of 10",11", or possibly 12".
There could be a split limit like some lakes have 5 over11" and 10 fish between 9" & 10" that might keep the issue of stunting the fish.
The major difference between here and Mississippi is the length of their growing season. The fish there grow most of the year. Our growing season is 7-8 months in north MO.
Most crappie fisheries are harvest oriented. Most anglers, but obviously not all, want to catch crappie to eat. So we try to set minimum length limits to obtain a good balance between fish quality (size) and yield (pounds available for harvest). Based on research in MO and across the country, we know that this balance is typically achieved by setting the length limit close to the average size the crappie attain after three years. So in our southern lakes where fish grow faster, a 10-inch length limit is best. In lakes where crappie grow well, but not as fast, like Truman, a 9-inch length limit is best. But in lakes where fish typically grow slow, like Mark Twain, it is best not to have a length limit at all. Mark Twain crappie, on average across many years, only reach 8 inches after three years. Crappie don't live too long, so protecting slow growing crappie with a length limit could drastically reduce yield while producing only small improvements in size. Mark Twain crappie do grow well in some years and crappie fishing is almost always very good the year after these good growth years. Also, Mark Twain often produces a lot of young crappie, so harvesting small fish is not necessarily bad. In fact, in some years I encourage it.
Ross,
Interesting comments concerning Twain, thanks for that. Curious, what is your opinion as to why the crappie in Twain are slower to grow? Size of the lake? Geography? Food sources? I've fished it long enought to go through the cyclical years and like you said, you can almost put it on a calendar when you'll have the good years versus bad. Interesting to note that after the flood year (08) the fishing in 2009 - 2011 was dynamite which I felt was directly attributable to the high water, low pressure years of 2008 and 2009....but now it seems as though it might be declining again in terms of average size of fish.
U
U, crappie growth in Mark Twain is closely tied to their primary forage, gizzard shad. Crappie growth is good when so many shad are hatched that the shad grow slow and remain small enough for the crappie to eat all summer. Factors that regulate shad are more complex, but are associated with several environmental factors, like high water, as you have noticed. Crappie fishing in 2011 was exceptional because there were lots of little shad for the crappie to eat during 2010, resulting in very good crappie growth and great fishing the following year. Average size is declining because growth hasn't been nearly as good the last couple of years.
don't know where you came from but great great info maybe i heard it before but you stated it very simply i need a lot of that thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Ross Dames
Good info in here. Thanks
In general terms, at what temperature do crayfish disappear for the winter? Also at what point in the spring do they reappear in the food chain?
I love to fish for crappie and would rather turn a 13 in fish loose than a 9 1/2 incher,as I also love to eat those same crappie.I hope not to offend anyone but I think the MDC has a good grasp on what they are doing in regards to the size limits.
Size limits are to prevent over harvesting mature spawning fish. As a conservationist we all need to realize its about having healthy fish, size limits and creel limits are what ensure that happens. As sport fishermen we love to catch those big ones. The biologists job is to first ensure the fish have what they need in a fishery from food sources to cover to spawn areas, then that information can be analyzed to provide the regulations with the adequate size and numbers needed to be harvest to keep the fishery in balance. Its not easy sometimes, just talk to the guys down in MS.
I keep telling y'all keep the big ones turn the small ones back, the small fish will be stronger, spawn more fry, the big ones are old , and do not produce great numbers of fry, and the size of a fish does not mean it will spawn big offspring.
true dat.
More prone to go along with that if so many people didn't want to keep one the second is "squeezes" to the 9 inch line. On average in our part of the world a 9" fish is 3-4 years old. If it's caught in February or March, prior to the spawn, would think it never had a chance to spawn unless you think it was mature enough the spring before as a 6 incher.
Hello all, my name is Mike Bayless and I'm the fisheries biologist on Truman. I plan to begin gathering preliminary age and growth imformation from Truman crappie this spring. Truman has consistently produced many larger crappie over the past 5 years. As a manager, one of the most common comments I recieve is why don't you increase the length limit to 10 inches. There are numerous factors that play into this, growth rates, varying spawning rates, angler harvest, food availablity, etc. The current length limit is based on growth information from the late 80s and early 90s. I hope to begin getting a better idea of current growth rates. You will probably see us this spring at several marinas around the lake collecting age structures from crappie.
Welcome Mike.... Bill C. via Mason's wayQuote:
Originally Posted by MBaylessTrumanMgr
welcome and thank you for your post, hope to see you in the lot
Welcome Mike...it'll be good having you around on here. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we appreciate the extra effort to come answer questions and provide information out here. Probably wasn't in your job description, so...I'm glad you stepped up.
Welcome Mike and Thank You for joining us!!! Your knowledge will be greatly appreciated!!!
X 2 Sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedog
I've been a fisheries biologist working out of Clinton for about 14 years now and I have to say, "why isn't the length limit on Truman crappie 10 inches?" is the most common question I hear. Like Jake mentions crappie populations can vary considerably from year to year. I would also agree that Truman is one of the best, if not the best crappie lake in MO for both numbers and size. This spring we began collecting otoliths, a bony structure in fish to look at growth. Drum stones are the otoliths of drum. We collected several hundred otoliths from both Truman and Lake Ozark crappie. In the coming months we will age these fish and begin to get a better idea of current growth rates and with that how long it takes crappie to reach legal size. This is only a beginning look at growth. If changes were to be made to length limits we would need to look at growth over multiple years to rule out the differences caused by other factors, ie. high water vs. low water years etc. It will be very interesting to see what we find and I'll keep the forum posted. I also agree with Jake that some anglers are self regulating. Over the past several years 9" crappie look pretty small compared to the many 10" and larger fish that you catch. On the other hand Truman recieves more crappie fishing pressure than probably any other large reservoir in MO. I'm not venturing to say one way or another if an increase to 10" is necessary, but IF the population could sustain its self over time and it's something that many anglers favor, it's certainly something worth taking a look at and we have begun to.Attachment 130091 This is an image of an otolith from a 9.5 inch white crappie. Not the dark center and two darker bands and you go toward the edge. This fish is two years old spawned in 2011.
That is one good post. Thanks for the picture and information. Always nice to learn something new.
thanks for the info. and keeping us informed.
Thanks for the update Mike. Keep up the great work.
Guys, I replied to this thread several months ago, especially relative to Mark Twain Lake, without making it clear who I was. It has been suggested I clear this up. So, I'm the fisheries management biologist for Mark Twain Lake and have been since 1996. I work out of the MDC office in Hannibal.
Ross glad to have you on here. Great to have biologists from different parts of the state that are over certain lakes to help with questions about the different lakes.
x2Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigging15