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Question:
So I fish like mad during certain months of the year. Never keep over my daily limit. Clean my fish at the lake, go home, label the bags so I consume on a FIFO bases.
Is there anything illegal with having a dozen or more bags of Crappie on hand at home.
Likewise, is there anything wrong with having venison on hand even though I never buy a license? I have a buddy kill me one every year, I pay processing and eat well all year.
I'm pretty sure you are only allowed to have the "possession" limit at home for fish. The deer legally has to have the name of the hunter on it, but he can give it to anyone he wants
So I'm guessing that you only have two or three filets in each bag. That would make you legal:cheers2
When we pick up the deer it has his paperwork and tag attached to it and it goes in the freezer with the meat.
I found out that the possession limit for fish in Mo is twice the "statewide" daily limit. I think the statewide daily limit for crappie is 30, so the possession limit would be 60. What is vague is whether that limit extends to your freezer. The wording says "while on the waters or banks of waters". I can supply a link if you want.
The important words are "possession limit "! That is the total amount of fish in your possession. If you have more than 60 crappie in your freezer and only one permit in the house you'd be over the limit.
So far, all responses are non-conservation agents. I have my "opinion" but the law is the law. And like was pointed out, the verbiage referred to is not referring to what a person "stores" or "possesses" at HOME. All pretext indicates and makes reference to a person still in the act and at the location of "fishing".
Any agents in da house?
The possession limit is twice the statewide daily limit. Fish you take and possess must be kept separate or distinctly identifiable from fish taken by another person. If you are away from your catch, the device holding the fish must be plainly labeled with your full name and address.
Possession and Length Limits | Missouri Department of Conservation
Twice your daily limit is it from the way it looks. So fish above the bridge on Deepwater creek and you can keep 30 a day. So then you can have 60 fish in the freezer. More if you have another permit holder in the house and keep them marked as to who's is who's.
I read and re-read that section of the reg, but I'm taking it to mean while in the act of fishing, at or near the body of water, or leaving the body of water. Think about it: If this reg holds the meaning as some have said, then once you have "stored" twice the daily limit for the state (60 crappie or 120 fillets) you are not allowed to keep crappie from any other body of water until you reduce your stored fish to below the possession limit.
Not saying our idiotic government is not beyond such over regulation, but I'd like to here it from the conservation agent. Might have to make a call or look up the long form of the regulation.
Remember: The regs most of us quote online, like your link, are from documents that are labeled "Not a legal document". In other words, it is a summary of the regs and not a complete and detailed resource.
What if your fish come from a private pond or lake that has no limit, then how many can you store?
does the term "arguing with a fence post" come to mind here? :)
I think you just called me a fence post... :Rofl. The wife would agree.
naw, you have a sense of humor and that disqualifies you as a fencepost :),,,,,,,now if you want to meet a true fencepost look up a guy on here goes by the name of "oleslanderside" or sumpin' like that
60 in Mo. 100 in kansas, 100 in Mississippi 80 some in Ok. 59 in arkansas, add em all up label them and hope for the best. having said that, if you brag to your buds, yap at the coffee shop, on how many, and how your stocking up for winter, and so on and so on, your probably gonna get a call from the agent in your area, just be civil about it.
I got a total of 12 crappie in the freezer, could go up and seine the pond and get 100 pretty quick. am I breaking the law? I bought the fish from Arkansas,fed the minnows that fed the crappie, am I legal, I fish arkansas catch 20 on beaver lake,bring them home freeze same, do this couple times then head to OK. bring home 37 freeze some eat some, it's adding up,,, catch some in springriver 30 bring home freeze, now I am getting a bunch... am I still legal , Over the MO. limit of 60 in my possession,but not all are Mo. fish,,,, now what.....
the above is just a thought, not real, well the 12 crappie in the freezer is real the other is just food for thought, but it could happen....
I think it's a good question, Gordon. It's been addressed on here before, but now with a CA board, perhaps it can be answered more.....authoritatively?
I'd like clarification on kids 15 and under who don't have a license #. So long as you label with their name, you're okay?
Also, what if I fish MN or KS and have fish properly labeled with that state's license number. Can I keep a possession limit of fish from several different states, provided they're all labeled properly?
(Bear in mind, all of this is moot for me. I struggle to get a limit, and we eat it pretty quickly.)
This is not a complete reprint of the code, but should contain info that helps to answer your questions…
3 CSR 10-4.137 Wildlife Identification
The taker and/or possessor of any wildlife shall keep the wildlife separate or distinctly identifiable from wildlife taken or possessed by another. When not personally attended, the wildlife shall be plainly labeled with the full name and address of the taker and/or possessor, except as provided in 3 CSR 10-6.405, 3 CSR 10-7.431 and 3 CSR 10-7.455.
3 CSR 10-4.135 Transportation
(1)Wildlife legally taken by sport hunting and fishing may be possessed and transported into, within, or out of this state as personal baggage of the taker, who has in his/her possession the required permit, or by other lawful possessor. Except for deer and turkeys taken in Missouri, persons possessing wildlife taken by another shall plainly label that wildlife with the full name, address and permit number of the taker and the date taken, except that Missouri limits shall apply on Missouri waters unless otherwise provided by reciprocal agreement. Deer and turkeys reported in accordance with established procedures, when labeled with the full name, address, date taken, and Telecheck confirmation number of the taker, may be possessed, transported, and stored by anyone. Wildlife legally taken and exported from another state or country may also be shipped into Missouri by common carrier, except cervid carcasses or cervid carcass parts. The importation, transportation, or possession of cervid carcasses or cervid carcass parts taken from or obtained outside of Missouri is prohibited, except for meat that is cut and wrapped; meat that has been boned out; quarters or other portions of meat with no part of the spinal column or head attached; hides or capes from which all excess tissue has been removed; antlers; antlers attached to skull plates or skulls cleaned of all muscle and brain tissue; upper canine teeth; and finished taxedermy products. Carcasses or parts of carcasses with the spinal colunm or head attached may be transported into the state only if they are reported to an agent of the department within twenty-four (24) hours of entering the state and then taken to a licensed meat processor or taxidermist within seventy-two (72) hours of entry. Licensed meat processors and taxidermists shall dispose of the discarded tissue in a properly permitted landfill.
3 CSR 10-4.136 Giving Away Wildlife
Wildlife legally taken and possessed may be given to another only by the taker after completion of the day’s fishing or hunt. Any wildlife given to another shall continue to be included in the daily limit of the taker for the day when taken. Wildlife, except deer and turkeys taken in Missouri, shall be labeled with the full name, address and permit number of the taker, species and the date when taken. Deer and turkeys taken in Missouri shall be labeled with the full name and address of the taker, the date taken, and the Telecheck confirmation number of the deer or turkey. Wildlife received as a gift shall be included in the possession limit of the recipient.
3 CSR 10-4.140 Possession, Storage and Processing
(1)Wildlife legally taken or acquired may be possessed and stored, preserved or under refrigeration only at the possessor’s home, camp, place of lodging or in a commercial establishment. Turkeys may be possessed or stored not later than February 15 next following the close of the season when taken.
(2)All stored wildlife, except deer and turkeys taken in Missouri, shall be labeled with the owner’s full name, address and permit number, as required, species and date of placing in storage. If taken in another state or country, it also shall bear the export certificate, if required. Stored deer and turkeys taken in Missouri shall be labeled with the full name and address of the taker, the date taken, and the Telecheck confirmation number of the deer or turkey.
3 CSR 10-4.150 Legality of Wildlife Taken Outside of Missouri
The laws in effect where wildlife is taken shall determine the legal take and possession limits, except that Missouri limits shall apply on Missouri waters unless otherwise provided by reciprocal agreement. Fish taken in another state on a sport fishing permit by methods not permitted in Missouri may not be possessed on waters of the state. This Code shall apply immediately when wildlife is transported into Missouri, except for interstate shipment neither originating in nor destined for Missouri.
Guess I am half a fence post, still don't figure what the rules say, on the water...... can we talk poor old dumb azz talk so I could understand it? think I will stick to the 16 I have cleaned all year and eaten already.......
Well MDCAgent, why is it so hard to just answer the question? This still leads to interpretation and opinion. So, you're an office of the law, a person has more than 120 crappie fillets in this "possession" at his residence. All bags are labeled with the species and date and lake taken from. Is this person breaking a law?
The closing sentence of 4.136 leads one to believe he/she may be breaking the law. Right? Wrong?
At the same time, 4.140 says nothing about stored wildlife being counted as a possession limit as per the earlier mentioned section.
The laws in effect where wildlife is taken shall determine the legal take and possession limits, except that Missouri limits shall apply on Missouri waters unless otherwise provided by reciprocal agreement. Fish taken in another state on a sport fishing permit by methods not permitted in Missouri may not be possessed on waters of the state. This Code shall apply immediately when wildlife is transported into Missouri, except for interstate shipment neither originating in nor destined for Missouri.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if its just me or but when I read that I see you can catch the legal limit from another state and have your permit from that state but if you stop at a Missouri lake on you way home and fish you're gonna get a ticket. And to kcbrown's point, I'm still not clear if (and for me a BIG IF) I have 60 in the freezer and I go to Eufaula for the weekend and come home with 37 crappie, bag em, tag em, and freeze em, I don't see in anywhere in that section where I'm legal
I know we may be headed in this direction, but I currently do not believe I am in danger of a law officer coming into my house and searching my freezer, regardless of how many different ways the law can be interpreted. They would have to have a search warrant and to get one you have to have reason to suspect a crime has been committed. Any one that ever saw me fish would never believe I would have any fish. let alone too many.:Rofl
SeaRay
Contrary to popular belief, game wardens/ conservation agents do not have to have search warrants. That is why they assist at times in criminal cases where a warrant can't be obtained.
Beg to differ, Gordon. I had to look this one up myself to verify, but in paragraph 2 it says they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown
Section 252-100 Complaints--search warrants--penalty fo
My freezer was searched one time without a warrant for an illegal deer. The officer said he was there on a tip. He searched all my outbuildings,barns, and freezer, found no trace of any deer. At the end of his search he decided that he had the wrong address!Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown
And then there's that. Most states do not. Arkansas is one of those or at least used to be.
Did you give them permission, knowing there was no deer present? Just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by snagged
Now that I think about it I did give permission. It was many, many years ago.
I've posed this same question to a friend of mine who is a conservation agent. Since I fish several different states including MO, MS, IL, Ky, TN and AR. I sometimes keep fish from each state. The answer he gave me was you are allowed to keep each states legal possession limit. Each catch has to be labeled with the state taken as well as your name and permit number from that state.
As far as unwarranted searches, as a former LEO, I will guarantee that the 4th amendment to the U.S. Constitution applies to everyone!!! No agency has the right to unwarranted search and seizures. If permission is given to search, then no warrant is necessary. This is a common urban legend that I encounter in just about every state I fish.
Thank you for your input MDCAgent663 Clay.
In Arkansas, fish and game that has been processed and stored in your home, does not count toward possession limit.
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hear in south carolina we have game zones the upstate 1,2 midstate 4,5 lower state 6,7 in the upstate i have a 10 deer limit mid state same. lower sate no limit all day all season so i can kill my deer in my game zone move to the mid state kill 10 more finish the long season out in the lower part of the state with all want their is one catch state wide i can only kill 2 deer a day but season last from aug to jan now to the fishing for the crappie 15 a day trout 8 a day black bass 8 stripers 5 catfish no limit i have three freezers and they stay well stocked with game and fish year round as for the deer i will keep 3 my family and if i harvest more i will give it to other family members and friends the same for the fish
The laws in effect where wildlife is taken shall determine the legal take and possession limits, except that Missouri limits shall apply on Missouri waters unless otherwise provided by reciprocal agreement. Fish taken in another state on a sport fishing permit by methods not permitted in Missouri may not be possessed on waters of the state. This Code shall apply immediately when wildlife is transported into Missouri, except for interstate shipment neither originating in nor destined for Missouri.
Seems pretty plain to me, go to Oklahoma buy a permit, catch 37 a day, tag and bag them, fish for 100 days bring them back to Missouri put 3,700 fish in your freezer and you are good! Last I checked OK has no possession limit. Down there they say once it is cleaned it is not a fish it is food!!!! Gordon just don't stop at Truman on the way back and take those fish out in your yak:banghead
Guys, I put the Code up so that you are provided with the regulation in its truest form. My hope is that by doing so I can help clarify questions and not further confuse anyone. I’m more than happy to clarify beyond that were needed. I recommend that if you have very specific questions regarding a personal situation that you contact a local Agent via the phone. That being said…
Your possession limit includes all fish that you have in your “actual and constructive possession and control”, including fish stored in freezers etc. Your possession limit includes fish you have caught and fish you have been given.
You can have in your possession (stored etc), limits of fish for each state that the fish were legally taken. However, on Missouri waters or the banks thereof, you may only have your Missouri limits of fish (Some reciprocal agreements with neighboring states apply – check with your local agent).
Children 15yo and younger and others without fishing permits may have a state limit of fish if the fish were legally taken and given to them in accordance with regulations in the Wildlife Code for labeling etc.
The statewide possession limit of Crappie is currently 60 (Subject to change), twice the legal daily limit ON MOST WATERS. That should provide 120 fillets. Given that 120 fillets would meet YOUR possession limit for fish taken in MO, any extra fish from MO would put you in violation.
**Several lakes have a 15 Crappie daily limit. Check local regs.
3 CSR 10-6.405 General Provisions
(F) A person may possess no more than two (2) statewide daily limits as prescribed in 3 CSR 10-6.505 through 3 CSR 10-6.620.
** 6.505-6.620 are the species by species regulations/limits/etc.
3 CSR 10-20.805 Definitions
(45) Possessed and possession: The actual and constructive possession and control of things referred to in this Code.
Excellent post!!! Thank you!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by MDCAgent663_Clay
That should clarify it for everyone. Thanks for the reply. This forum has been a great addition thanks to you and other answering our questions. Thanks again.
I agree with Speck and Jared. Excellent reply. Answered all my questions. Thanks.
Thanks for clarifying.
As with all things that have to do with With the MO Dep't of Cons. it all depends on who you know. If you are just an everyday Joe like me and the agent decides to write you up for something, you are going to pay big time. The regulations are so poorly written, and so confusing that a Philadelphia lawyer couldn't figure it out. Straight out of the manual:
Sooo... if you are an old codger like me (68) you are no doubt breaking the law because you don't have a permit number. In addition if you have ever caught a mess of crappie and had a kicker walleye or white bass and put all the filets into one bag, you are in technical violation of the labeling requirement. What I'm saying is that no matter how hard you try to follow the rules they are going to get you for something.Quote:
Stored fish must be labeled with your full name, address, permit number, species of fish
Several years ago I fished a 3 day tournament on Truman. There were guys there from at least 20 states including CA, FL, NY, and MN. The DOC guys checked every boat for compliance and wrote hundreds of tickets to out of state guys for things their states didn't require (registering trolling motors for example). To make matters worse the same guys checked every boat on all three days and wrote multiple tickets to the same guys for the same things. To top it off they put up a temporary no wake zone by the island outside Sterett Creek and ticketed even locals that knew the zone wasn't there! Great bunch of guys they were and the organization that ran the tournament never came back to MO.
Sorry for the rant but, I went nearly 20 years and never bought a single license in MO.
you say the reg are hard to gollow, you say putting different fish in the same bag will get you into hot water, well the reg. says lable type of fish,,, it is not hard to spell walley,and crappie,on the same bag. as far as out of state no reg of trolling motor, or say trailer license for example,,, Mo. does not punish one for not complying with our laws on that, If I am not required to have a lets say a license plate on my trailer and I come from Kansas to Mo. I will not get a ticket because the Great State of Kansas says I don't need a license, as for not having your number on the bag of fish, you got a driver license, it has a number, you have a SS number, VA card, No driving ID. lots of ways to id your catch. most people, not saying you..but most people complicate the manual and over read it,,, you say you never came back to mo. where are you now?
I said I never bought a liscense in Missouri for 20 years. At the time I lived in Cape Girardeau and purchased licenses in IL, KY, TN, MS, and AR.Quote:
you say you never came back to mo. where are you now?
When I moved to Boonville I quit fishing all together until just over a year ago. The tickets to out of State fisherman did happen. It was over 20 years ago and apparently things may be different now. You don't know me but you can call me a liar. I don't know you so can I call you a smart ass?
IIRC the Tournament was sponsored by Western Bass in 1980 or so and was a team tournament for Bass Clubs. Each club entered 6 members (3 boaters and 3 non boaters). The first prize was to be 6 fully rigged Rangers. It turned out to be a bust and the purse wound up being 1 boat not 6 and a team from Springfield won it. The format was 3 practice days and 3 days of competition on 3 different lakes. I was there and weighed in 13 lbs on Truman. I ran all the way from Sterett Creek to Osceola and caught 2 - 6 lb+ bass in Wableau Creek.
I also have had other run ins with the DOC. My son joined the Army when he graduated out of high school. He was in for 3 years and his last assignment was a year in Nicaraqua. He got out, just in time for deer season. Unfortunately the 3 safety courses that he took in high school didn't count for the new (at the time) safety requirement and he was refused a license. After the season was over we both went to the 1st safety course available. At that time the DOC instructor says "Why you should have called me. I would have fixed you right up."
It is not what you do that counts... it is who you know.
I too say they are hard to follow. Even when the authority copy/paste some of the reg people were still confused and quoting sections that didn't have anything to do with stored fish at home.
I have a beef with some of the idiotic laws that seem to do nothing more than what a speed trap does for the local pd as far as raising revenue.
A. What difference does it make if you keep your fish identifiable from another licensed fisherman in your boat or on the bank with you. Husband and wife fishing side by side dumping their catch in the same fish basket. If they aren't clipping fins or something they are breaking the law on the 16th fish placed in the basket. Using Truman's limit here.
B. What difference does it make if someone catches and stores fish. If they aren't keeping more than the daily limit, what diff does it make if they accumulate some for winter when fishing gets tough or impossible due to work. I guarantee you this, I never waste one fillet. If it is thawed, it gets cooked, if it gets cooked it gets eaten, if not that night I save it for a fish sammich at the office the next day.
Here's the difference. It generates revenue. Nothing else. It does not stop over harvesting in any way shape or form.
Come on guys, the question was asked and answered. Twice actually. I'm not going to let this new board become a forum to bash the Department of Conservation or personally attack other members.
This is a very valuable tool some of the agents volunteered to share with us. These are good men and women who have a tough, thankless job.
If you have a problem with MO game laws, I suggest write to your State representatives. They are who pass the laws.
Also, I'm not going to tolerate name calling and personal attacks!!! Period!!!
What happened 20 years ago is done!!!