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Ok 2003 ZB's found in El Dorado, KDWP passed a vol. requirement to drain and dry, very weak, .... should have know this was not going to work. Again another came up with ZB's still KDWP said vol. drain and dry. Wrong did not work
ZB continued to spread. Now in most lakes and still Vol drain and dry.


The first response should have been tagging all boats that put in at El Dorado. They could not put into another lake until the tag was removed by KDWP, if you are going to enforce something you need to bite the bullet and get it done, the ... response doomed the rest of the Kansas Lakes. All will be infected in less than 10 Years.

KDWP ... response is the cause of the rapid spread of ZB. If the infestation is that bad then the response should have been strong enough to prevent the spread not the .... response that they took.

I do not think it will manner what requiresment are put in place, there enough I do not care individuals the ZB will be spread. I am more concerned about the invasion of the bighead carps.

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Originally Posted by Ronald Meeder

I do not think it will manner what requiresment are put in place, there enough I do not care individuals the ZB will be spread. I am more concerned about the invasion of the bighead carps.

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Good point Ron, we can still fish with mussels, but those carp are decapitating. I must admit I do like crappieslingers caption.

How do you expect KDWP to pay for a better response? Sure you could tag the boat, but what happens when they put in at another lake at 2 in the morning? Is someone supposed to man each lake 24/7 to make sure they have no zebra mussels? When they wanted to charge seniors for a fishing license to get more money the response here was like it was the end of the world. I'm sure they could come up with a better way to handle the ANS, but will you be willing to pay more for your fishing license?

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Originally Posted by Blackdog40

Ok 2003 ZB's found in El Dorado, KDWP passed a vol. requirement to drain and dry, very weak, .... should have know this was not going to work. Again another came up with ZB's still KDWP said vol. drain and dry. Wrong did not work
ZB continued to spread. Now in most lakes and still Vol drain and dry.


The first response should have been tagging all boats that put in at El Dorado. They could not put into another lake until the tag was removed by KDWP, if you are going to enforce something you need to bite the bullet and get it done, the ... response doomed the rest of the Kansas Lakes. All will be infected in less than 10 Years.

KDWP ... response is the cause of the rapid spread of ZB. If the infestation is that bad then the response should have been strong enough to prevent the spread not the .... response that they took.

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Are you serious??? I cant even respond to your ignorance at this point!!!
I will respond later this weekend when my blood pressure goes down.

In the meantime,,,
Oh hell never mind.....

Hmmmmm, complain about KDWPT not being proactive on ZM.

Complain about KDWPT adopting too stringent bait regs.

Complain about KDWPT plan to increase dept funding.

Thats alot of complaining!

hang in there bd40 i can remember not to long ago one of the high rollers on here said his boat was to fancy to decontaminate doubt if those zb's can tell how much your boat cost

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Originally Posted by crappieslinger

Are you serious??? I cant even respond to your ignorance at this point!!!
I will respond later this weekend when my blood pressure goes down.

In the meantime,,,
Oh hell never mind.....

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1st, :welcome bluegill68, eloquent post. Zebra's have a long, documented history with man. Whether they're parasitic in contrast to other ANS species they have what it takes for global domination. Their turf includes most, if not all of the industrialized northern hemisphere. It seems where ever man goes, Zebra's will follow. From what I've found their 1st documentation was in Russia in 1754 (pretty sure here), since that time they have taken control of Asia and Europe with an M.O. just like we're seeing here in the USA today. I've read they can live up to 10 days dry with perfect conditions or 3 days in a much harsher environment.

Their spread in N America is well documented now. We are talking about something here that's like a bacteria more than an animal. Can we stop it? Sadly, I don't believe it's possible for many reasons from what I've read. Man has to much of an "accountability" issue to realize the extent of the problem. There is no "cut the head off the snake" cure here. A bake your boat in an oven or chemical bath are probably a couple ways for MAN to control his part of the spread, however damage to watercraft from repeated cleansings would deteriorate a boats integrity. Now, we're starting to find out that man is not the only carrier of this creature, if there's water any and all creatures pose the probability of harboring zebras. When someone builds a new cattle pond how does it become inhabited? Where does the plant life come from, or the fish without stocking? I've watched ponds go dry only to fill again and harbor fish. How did they get there? Is it me or just coincidence that the lakes that have mussels are somewhat along a flight path for migrating waterfowl? I don't think any amount of money will stop their spread!!! Instead let's use the money to find ways to co-habitat with them, they do have far greater numbers/dollars. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Blackdog40

Ok 2003 ZB's found in El Dorado, KDWP passed a vol. requirement to drain and dry, very weak, .... should have know this was not going to work. Again another came up with ZB's still KDWP said vol. drain and dry. Wrong did not work
ZB continued to spread. Now in most lakes and still Vol drain and dry.


The first response should have been tagging all boats that put in at El Dorado. They could not put into another lake until the tag was removed by KDWP, if you are going to enforce something you need to bite the bullet and get it done, the ... response doomed the rest of the Kansas Lakes. All will be infected in less than 10 Years.

KDWP ... response is the cause of the rapid spread of ZB. If the infestation is that bad then the response should have been strong enough to prevent the spread not the .... response that they took.

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Blackdog40,

I'm not real sure what you are looking for out of this post as you didn't ask any questions so I'll try to provide some information that you and other readers may find useful.

You mention ANS control methods for boats only. While boats are a vector for transporting ANS they are not the only one that we have to worry about. A bank angler utilizing a simple minnow bucket has the potential to move as much water as a partially/poorly drained boat. Some anglers keep bait (usually sunfish for trotline bait) in coolers or other livewell type. I've seen folks at the stilling basin at El Dorado reservoir 'freshening up' their cooler water with water from the stilling basin carried up in 5 gallon buckets which would be full of live zebra mussel veligers providing a free ride to these hitchhikers. Water toys such as floats, air mattresses, floating coolers and the like can all be found at the lakes without a boat in sight and all of these have potential to move zebra mussels, both adult and veliger forms. Waterfowl hunters hunting from shoreline areas utilizing decoys and waders also have potential to transport zebra mussels. Muddy wader boots can harbor adult zebra mussels even during the cold winter months. Denying access to ALL boating traffic would not guarantee an ANS free lake if all of these other transfer vectors are ignored.

Clean, Drain, & Dry not only works on zebra mussels but ALL of the current ANS threats to Kansas waters. If you treat your gear properly for zebra mussels, then you have effectively eliminated the transfer of other ANS species. It's not only about zebra mussels now, they were the tip of the iceberg. Asian carp, white perch, largemouth bass virus, and many others are waiting for a free ride to a new lake or drainage.

Boat tagging programs similar to what you mentioned have been used outside of Kansas. Programs such as these are expensive to operate as time/manpower are quite high. Public acceptance must be considered. Limiting boating access to Kansas public waters would be a very hot topic. Currently, there is not an overabundance of ANS dollars available to KDWPT. I understand these numbers are a bit dated but it was the most recent year I could find for multiple states ANS budgets. These budgets have likely changed over time so look at them for what they are, 2008 budgets.


2008 State ANS Program Budgets

State Budget $
Iowa $650,000
Minnesota $4,000,000
California $8,000,000
Hawaii $6,000,000
Colorado $12,100,000 (included some program start up monies, annual budget $7,000,000)
Utah $1,800,000 (with 66 positions including 27.75 full time employees)
Kansas $43,134

As you can see, various state ANS programs are funded quite differently. Those states with the higher ANS budgets can obviously fund more projects and projects that require increased manpower. KDWPT is currently working with what our budget allows. Each year ANS budgets are requested but not always approved or approved at a much reduced percentage of the original. ANS are a monetary drain on state management agencies gobbling up dollars that could have been used on other projects that directly benefit the angler. The fewer infested water bodies that exist, the less the drain on those dollars. Increased funding has been obtained by KDWPT during 2011 and 2012 allowing for bait shop inspections, increased zebra mussel veliger sampling, temporary employees to conduct data collection in the field, and increased outreach activities. If requested funding is obtained large scale boat inspections are planned. As stated above, an effective ANS program must cover many facets and that doesn't come cheap. KDWPT is exploring additional funding sources to address issues such as ANS but as you know some of these funding proposals have not been popular with all of the angling constituency. In reality, increased funding will be required to enhance/expand the ANS program.

It has always been said that every lake in the state will be infested with zebra mussels within 10 years. We are approaching the 9 year anniversary of the discovery of zebra mussels in El Dorado reservoir. In those 9 years, zebra mussels have spread to 9 other reservoirs and four community/city lakes. Not the best record, but it could be worse--much worse without the efforts of many dedicated anglers, hunters, boaters, and other lake users that utilized Kansas waters. These 14 lakes infested with zebra mussels over the past 9 years are a far cry from 'all the lakes in Kansas'...we still have a lot to protect.

Shane, I liked your post too. It was just 1 tiny bit of info but the message was good.

Craig, I've been to some Federal sites reading and noting references. Every year they learn more and more. I was completely taken by mussel survivability as veligers, one article said that some years mortality rates for veligers was 99%, and that they're adapting(mutating) to deeper environments. I was also surprised about desiccation figures, which has me wondering about carpeted boat bunks, as well as animal life. One author exclaimed "clean, drain, dry is the best we have right now". I was wanting to try some blues till I read these articles, are there any sampling results available on fish consumption in this relationship? Also, back to original topics, that mortality rate and just how many there are is mind-boggling. If that's only a tiny portion clinging to those rocks, well, I hope they find a solution soon cause that's just insane.

Thanks for the data Craig. That is very useful information for those of us that take the time to read it, THINK ABOUT IT, understand its meaning and formulate an educated opinion. I have done a lot of research on this subject but do not normally save it, or at least I didn't previously. I am saving it now so I can refer to it/provide references in the future!

I will leave this post alone as I get too fired up on this issue and I want to keep this family friendly. White Flag Icon

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Originally Posted by crappiedoc

Shane, I liked your post too. It was just 1 tiny bit of info but the message was good.

Craig, I've been to some Federal sites reading and noting references. Every year they learn more and more. I was completely taken by mussel survivability as veligers, one article said that some years mortality rates for veligers was 99%, and that they're adapting(mutating) to deeper environments. I was also surprised about desiccation figures, which has me wondering about carpeted boat bunks, as well as animal life. One author exclaimed "clean, drain, dry is the best we have right now". I was wanting to try some blues till I read these articles, are there any sampling results available on fish consumption in this relationship? Also, back to original topics, that mortality rate and just how many there are is mind-boggling. If that's only a tiny portion clinging to those rocks, well, I hope they find a solution soon cause that's just insane.

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crappiedoc,

Luckily, the mortality rate for veligers is very high! Each female can produce 500,000 to 1,000,000 eggs per growing season. Young of the year zebra mussels become sexually mature their first growing season. Unfortunately, 1% of 900 gazillion is still enough recruiting offspring to choke our lakes. The zebra mussels have developed a very successful reproductive stategy.

It was originally thought that the zebra mussels wouldn't do well in the warmer waters of the United States. As the zebra mussel spread marched south from the Great Lakes that theory was quickly proven wrong. The zebra mussels have been able to adapt to the warmer water temperatures and still thrive. At one time, the zebra mussels at Winfield City Lake were found to be the most thermally tolerant population in the database. As you mentioned, new information is gained each day as scientists continue to study the zebra mussel. Hopefully the solution is found soon but until then preventing the spread to additional waters is our best weapon.

While many species of Kansas fish can and do consume zebra mussels they can't consume enough to impact the zebra mussel population. Blue cats do feed upon zebra mussels during the summer months but they can't keep up with the overpowering reproduction of the mussels. Stocking blue catfish to control zebra mussels could be described as taking a fly swatter to a feed lot--you're going to kill a lot of flies but you aren't going to impact the population. When I originally stocked blues in El Dorado I hoped to create a positive (blue cat population) from a negative (zebra mussel infestation) as the blues fed upon the zebra mussels. It appears to be working as blue cats are now naturally recruiting in the lake, but as expected no decrease in zebra mussel density has occurred since the introduction of the blue cats. Common carp and freshwater drum feed heavily upon zebra mussels as well. Channel catfish utilize them to a lesser extent. I see blue cats on a regular basis at El Dorado that are packed full of zebra mussels.

Here's a picture of one of the zebra mussel samplers at El Dorado Reservoir from July 2004 and again in August 2005 which shows how quickly zebra mussels can colonize a lake. Notice how the majority of the zebra mussels in the left side of the picture are either in the inside or underneath side of the PVC sampler. These darker, hidden areas are the 'prime' areas for zebra mussels but as these 'prime' areas are taken other zebra mussels will occupy the poorer locations which results in complete coverage. In low density populations, zebra mussels will most always be found on the underneath side of rocks or other substrates instead of on the top where they would be more noticeable to humans. When searching for zebra mussels it is best to flip rocks and look at these 'prime' areas. This reclusive nature of young, low density populations is likely responsible for delayed discovery of new infestations.

Attachment 97022

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Originally Posted by crappieslinger

Thanks for the data Craig.

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No problem crappieslinger. Glad you found is useful.