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been seeing some posts on this have not caught any in kansas catch them at the loz every now and then heard years ago they are a cross of blacks and whites but just a fluke but if you get a black nose to a black nose you could have them with some regularaty any thoughts on this? thanks jim
Jim,Quote:
Originally Posted by springhillwantabe
'Blacknose' crappie are not a hybrid cross between white and black crappie. They are a black crappie with a gene for the black stripe down their nose and back for which they are named.
Other state Fish & Game agencies have used the blacknose crappie in stocking studies as the fish are easily identified by the natural marker and recruitment/contribution of stocked fish to the population is more easily tracked.
I've seen the reports on the KS CDC board of recent catches of blacknose crappie from a couple of our Kansas reservoirs. KDWPT has not stocked blacknose crappie so the sources of these fish may be coming from the private side (like fishlessDan mentioned his pond seeding the Wakie).
Craig .... isn't there also the possibility of a naturally occurring Blacknose population ?? We've discussed this fish off & on for years, here on the site ... and searches for info have brought up the fact that there are several states that have these naturally occuring populations.
My first introduction to this fish was several decades ago, at Watts Bar Lake in E Tenn. It was described as a Arkansas Blacknose Crappie, by my friend/fishing partner .... but, I don't know where he got that info. Research brought me to the discovery that there's a naturally occurring population in a small section of the White River, in Ark. But, later research brought out the fact that other states also had these populations (13 states in all).
According to this website - Fish of Eastern Kansas - Linn Valley Lakes - Blacknose are being raised for stocking public waters in Kansas .
... cp :cool:
crappiepappy, Yes, once the 'blacknose' crappie is available in a population with its' gene for 'the mark', others with the blacknose character could be produced if the genetic roll of the dice lands on 'blacknose'. Hmmm...I haven't seen that link for Linn Valley Lakes before today. I can tell you that no blacknose crappie are being raised in KDWPT hatcheries. However, private sector fish farms do grow, market, and sell blacknose crappie in Kansas. With that being said, it is illegal for members of the public to stock public fishing waters in Kansas.Quote:
Originally Posted by crappiepappy
Yeah, Craig ... it's a REAL GOOD idea to not let the "public" decide what fish to put into "public" waters !!
One other little tidbit of info on the Blacknose, that I'd like to share ... the black stripe generally runs from under the bottom lip, to between the nostrils/eyes and back to the beginning of the dorsal fin. There are some "articles" that make the statement that the stripe runs down the back, all the way to the tail Doh ... but, I've never seen one with a stripe past the dorsal, nor have I seen a picture of one with such. Have you :confused:
There was, also, a discussion on another state board, awhile back .... where the "recessive" nature of the pigment gene came into play. I was always under the impression that, if two Blacknose had offspring, the result would be 100% Blacknose ... but, if a Blacknose & (reg) Black Crappie had offspring, then the result would be 0% Blacknose offspring. There was one member that refuted that assumption. What say you ??
... cp :cool:
thanks again
Craig, funny thing is we didn't stock the pond with backnose crappie, just blacks and whites. Could they have cross bred or something to get the blacknosed ones in there? It's been awile since we fished the pond alot, but it used to seem that roughly 1 out of 10 would have a blacknose.
It appears that my sources on 'blacknose info' may have been a bit outdated and my posts were not as accurate as I would have liked. I'm still digging in to this topic and hopefully I can find some current info for you guys!
Dan ... I don't think you can get Blacknose just from cross breeding of Blacks & Whites, naturally or otherwise. But ... I know what you mean about being surprised at finding Blacknose in a population that was stocked with Black & White Crappie. We have a small lake, here in KY, that was stocked with Black Crappie only (supposedly Doh ). They were not fish from a hatchery, but taken from a couple of other local lakes ... none of which are known to have Blacknose. Well, in the course of fishing this lake, I have personally caught several Blacknose Crappie from it. The only explanation I can come up with, is that the nettings from those other lakes must have picked up some Blacknose Crappie, without the KDFWR knowing about it. And, even if they did happen to notice that there were some Blacknose in the mix ... since they're still actually just a Black Crappie, there wouldn't be any reason to be concerned. Personally ... I wish they'd have stocked it EXCLUSIVELY with Blacknose !!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishlessDan
... cp :cool:
I looked up a study on blacknose crappie. I'll try to summarize here to provide info for answering the numerous questions above.
The blacknose crappie is a black crappie that possess a gene that causes the black stripe from mouth to dorsal fin.
The gene that causes the stripe was found to be 'completely dominant' in this study.
Presence or absence of the blacknose trait is not tied to sex of the fish.
In this study, four progeny groups were produced. Groups 1 & 2 were produced by crossing a black crappie with no stripe with a 'blacknose crappie'. Group 1 parents consisted of females with no stripe and males with stripe and resulted in 100% of offspring with stripe. Group 2 parents consisted of females with stripe and males with no stripe and resulted in 100% of offspring with stripe.
Groups 3 & 4 were produced from fish from progeny group 1. Group 3 parents were female with stripe and male with stripe and resulted in 79.2% of offspring with stripe and 20.8% without stripe. Group 4 parents were female with stripe and male with stripe and resulted in 78.6% of offspring with stripe and 21.4% without stripe. Basically, 3:1 ratio for Groups 3 and 4.
Progeny group 3 exhibited a 1:1 ratio of males to females for both striped and no stripe fish.
Based on the findings of that study, If I had a pond, I'd keep any blacknose I caught alive and put them in the pond. You'd think that after a few years, if you're lucky you'd have a decent population of them, if you're lucky.
Thanks Craig ... that study explains things : That being, that if two Blacknose mate, the majority of offspring will have the stripe. And, if a Blacknose & stripeless Black Crappie mate, ALL of the offspring will have a stripe. That's definitive proof that the gene is dominant.
That being said ... I was always under the impression that the stripe was the result of a "recessive" gene. And in my discussion with another member, his impression was that the "recessive" gene would not be washed out in the offspring of a Blacknose & regular Black Crappie. My argument was that, if the gene was recessive, it wouldn't manifest itself in that scenario ... to which he counter argued that it would. This study kind of made me think that we were both right, to a certain extent. But, it still confused me as to whether the pigmentation stripe producing gene is recessive or dominant .... since most of the web info refers to the gene as being "recessive". That is ... until I read this : Crappie Confusion where the Tx Biologist, Dan Ashe, makes this statement -- " Interestingly, biologists originally believed this trait was recessive, but it is now known that it is, in fact, a dominant genetic trait". OK ... now we're getting somewhere !! Hands Clapping
THEN, he goes on to say - " ... this trait is expressed evenly in both males and females in a population and will be exhibited in about 30% of all the fish". WAIT .... WHAT ??? Is he suggesting that ~30% of ALL Black Crappie are Blacknose, or just carry the gene that manifests the stripe ?? Or is he saying that only ~30% of the Blacknose gene carrying males & females will have a stripe ??
Not meaning to be persnickity about all this .... but, I would like to know the whole truth, so as not to (continue to) be a source of misinformation about this fish. There's already enough misinformation about Blacknose Crappie circulating on the web, well meaning as it may be ... but, I'd like Crappie.com to be the source of the absolute truth & final say, so that our members can be educated/knowledgeable enough to represent this site as THE source for factual information about this fish. Thumbs Up
... cp :cool:
(permission to use quotes from the linked article, & the article itself, have been requested ... if permission is denied, this post will be deleted)
Being as Blacknose are simply Black Crappie (with a distinguishing marking gene) ... you wouldn't need "luck" to have a decent population, just simply a large enough pond ... with adequate conditions (temp/cover/foodsource/depth) for their survival ... same as you would have to have for any Black Crappie population. You would also need a source of predation, be it angling pressure or predatory fish, in order to help keep the population in check. It would only take a few breeding pairs a couple of spawns to overpopulate the waters & create a stunting of growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by mduncan62
... cp :cool: