My boat has electrical issues...

My boat has electrical problems. A Quick and Dirty request for counsel!

I am posting from my cell so forgive the errors and redundancy ....

Now they might all be related or not, I simply do not know but a few weeks ago (or more) I discovered that when the aerator was turned on, it would sometimes short out or do something where the fishfinders would turn off and the one quit altogether. The new Humminbird apparently shorted or received a power-surge and it had to have the circuit board replaced. I now have a 3 AMP ATC in-line fuse between it and the power supply. I believe both fishfinders (I replaced both that came with the boat) are connected to a power source under the console. I got the Humminbird back, installed the new in-line fuses and would only turn on the livewell/aerator AFTER I had turned off the fishfinders, so this hadn’t been an issue and the aerator/livewell seems to work now…

That was the first experience.

Then, and maybe even before this all went down, I noticed the one fishfinder and maybe both would turn off – sometimes when I was simply fishing and using the trolling motor but more often when I was under power. What made this more interesting is that you could not simply power either of them back on and repeated attempts would not turn them on until they simply would turn on when I tried it again; sometimes many minutes later.

Now, in the last several outings I have seen the fishfinders quit and would not power back on for some time. I had placed a fuse holder with a 3AMP fuse (Mini ATC) between both (new, replacements) fishfinders and the power source – they are wired to something in the console where the original fishfinders were located. I had chalked it up to maybe the aerator issue but am now not sure as it had occurred allot during the times I was running the motor but now it also happens when I am not and am simply fishing. I thought it might have been a vibration issue but am not sure. And what blows my mind is how they will not simply turn back on but will (usually) some time later. I do notice this happens more when the motor is running or when I am traveling on the water this way...

There are two batteries (with a Cabela's on-board two-bank charger) where one is for the engine and the other is for the trolling motor. There are a number of fuses located in the battery compartment and then a couple under the console. Some are the glass (old) automobile type fuses and others are the plug in type (ATC, regular and mini).

On July Fourth, I went out and before I left I checked to MAKE SURE that the trolling motor was working and so were the fishfinders. However, as soon as I arrived at the first spot, the trolling motor would not turn on at all. I checked the wiring and while the plug looked like it had some residue on the interior electrical connectors, that didn't appear to be the issue. I then unwrapped the tape from around the trolling motor cable that is connected to the wired cable plug and it appeared that the one connector had come loose so I jammed it back in – they were not soldered together but had the wire ends tinned (soldered) and connected together with a crimp-style connector. However, then the glass fuse kept blowing, instantly I might add, and I ran out of fuses that fit. Now I still had issues where the fishfinders would turn off and then wouldn’t simply turn back on. Maybe a separate issue but I have to conjecture they are related.

I know have to redo the connection of the wiring cable that goes directly (with an in-line fuse) from the battery to the front of the boat at the cable plug in but I also noticed last night that the boat light on the side of the console would not turn on. And, I discovered that the bulb in the rear running light had burned up or shorted (the filament was gone) – just as I was heading back after sunset with DNR CPO's everywhere!

Luckily, no one stopped me as I was wearing a LED headlamp and had a LED Maglight pointed at the rear of the boat to show I had the light pole in but that it wasn't working...

So, I have to wonder if some of the wiring is bad, has shorts in it, there are bad connections somewhere, or whatever??? Maybe the lights are related and then maybe not…

I do not have a wiring diagram for the boat and it looks like much of the wiring added AFTER it was made is of different levels of quality. There is no fuse block that I am aware of and the fuses seem to be placed there for the following:

Protect the fishfinders
Protect the on-board battery charger
Possibly for the bilge pump
Possibly for the aerator
Whatever

I have two glass in-line fuses under the console and the two new ATC in-line fuses for the fishfinders there too. In the battery compartment there are at least six fuses (I will check tonight to make sure) and as previously stated they are there for the charger, front trolling motor, and possibly for the aerator and bilge, and maybe even for the fishfinders? There is a fuel gauge, and the boat has power trim which has not been affected. I checked the battery connections on the deep-cycle battery to ensure a good contact and even replaced it with a newer battery as this one seems have had issues charging but is under warranty. I know from experience that when I disconnected that battery the fishfinders stayed on so the electronics must be connected to the starting battery. As for the boat running plug-in lights for the stern and transom, I am guessing they too are connected to the starter battery but not sure. As for the console accessory light (switched) it was working last night so I am up in the air about why it wouldn’t turn on Monday evening.

I have not messed with the other battery and both batteries seem to charge fast. I even checked them with a voltmeter and saw they were both at optimum levels of over 12 volts each after being charged.

My thoughts are that the cable for the trolling motor needs to be fixed, maybe soldered instead of a crimp connection, and replace the glass in-line fuses (it had a 250 VOLT, BUSS AGC 7-1/2 in it) with maybe ATC’s but I am not sure what type of fuse to use or at what level. Another boater asked if I used a 50 AMP and I wonder if that is the appropriate type – it is for a Minn-Kota foot-pedal controlled 40-pounder troller. The Humminbird fishfinders are a 565 and a 161 both are basically new. The boat is a 1988 Sea Nymph Sidewinder 175 with 75HP Mercury.

Everyone’s thoughts, ideas, questions and suggestions are deeply appreciated. I would like to try and fix this myself and hope someone out there has had similar experiences and can shed some light on my dilemma(s)! Thank you all in advance!

Sounds like you have a bucket of worms. Loose and dirty connections can cause a lot of problems including blowing fuses. They cause an increase in resistance which causes an increase in amperage. If it were mine I would tear every wire out of it and rewire so I knew exactly what I had. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, at least identify the wires going to each piece of equipment, nake sure all connections are clean and tight, then get rid of all excess wires so you know they are not shorting and causing problems. Good luck.

Yep. Too much going on to just trouble shoot. Clean everything, try it and if that fails, replace it all. No fun, but that's the best way.

Wannabe...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barnacle Bill

Loose and dirty connections can cause a lot of problems including blowing fuses. They cause an increase in resistance which causes an increase in amperage. .

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I don't think this statement is correct. Please consult Mr. Ohm on this. He wrote the law. The absolutely correct part of this statement is the following "Loose and dirty connections can cause a lot of problems".

This may take awhile. I was in the car stereo business for 35 years, and am a 12v expert (somewhat) ;-) Now I'm in the boat business. (what a loser Ive been) Call me at 870-635-0202 and we can walk through it together. One problem doesn't lead to another unless the problem is on the same circuit. You will need a test light or meter and access to the boat when we talk. Did you replace the bulbs in the navigation lights? Did you check the pump for debris? If the pump is being held by debris of some sort ( scales, dirt, etc ) it will get hot and the resistance will shoot up and cause a problem on that circuit. Could even melt the wires if it gets too hot. All of the electrical stuff should come off of the cranking battery. Only the TM on the trolling battery Is the cranking battery good? Put s load checker on it and see. It may charge but not withstand a load on it---goes down quick when you use it. Just call me and I'll give a list to check. I bet we can fix it in about an hour. You could have a bad fuse block or the connection to the block could be bad from the battery causing the multiple problems. DONT REWIRE THE ENTIRE BOAT!!!!!!!!! Call or PM me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCC

I don't think this statement is correct. Please consult Mr. Ohm on this. He wrote the law. The absolutely correct part of this statement is the following "Loose and dirty connections can cause a lot of problems".

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That statement is very correct. Loose and dirty connections cause an increase in resistance (ohms). Increased resistance cause an increase in amp draw which can blow fuses.

Formula for current is I=e/r where I is the Current, e is the voltage, and r is the resistance. To make things simple lets say that you have a 12 volt circuit and a load of 12 ohms. The total current draw for this circuit will be 1 amp. If the resistance should increase for whatever reason lets say to a resistance of 120 ohms on this same circuit. To determine the current (I) you will neet to divide E(the voltage, in this case 12) by the resistance( in this case an INCREASE to 120 ohms) and you will have a current of .1amps or 100ma. However if you decrease the the resistance. Lets say to 1 ohm for ease in calculating, you will have the voltage =12 divided by 1 ohm, the total current will be 12 amps for this circuit.

Increasing the resistance (loose connections) always decreases the current and will NEVER cause a fuse to blow. However, a loose connection will generate heat which will sometime melt the insulation on the conductors and cause a shorted condition, which is a decrease in the amount of resistance and will cause a fuse to blow.

I didn't make the law. Mr Ohm did.

Nothing personal, it's just the way things are. Don't take my word for this. Ask the most knowledgable person on the board if ohms law works. This is what I do for a living. I'd rather be showing fish pics than talking electricty.

I am 100% in agreement with your statement "loose connections cause trouble" and I also know that Zettler doesn't need to understand ohms law to be able to get all his stuff running right.

Bill (aka BigRiverMarine) and the rest of you,

Thanks so very much for your suggestions and counsel. And, Bill, thanks for talking to me tonight until after sunset. I am sure we can get it fixed as you sure know your stuff!

Bob

Dirty connections do cause increased current draw in many circuits, and it's because of the effects described in Ohm's Law. A motor trying to draw power through a poor connection sees its input voltage drop due to the voltage drop across the connection resistance. As the input voltage drops, the motor draws more current, because a motor will draw whatever current it needs to turn the attached load. As the motor draws more current, the bad connection drops more voltage, etc.. Some other circuits also exhibit similar behavior when voltage is low.

Also check the condition of the fuse holder.

Corrosion at the holder can cause heat buildup and can take out the fuse from heat.

First I want to thank all the people on the forums at Crappie.com and at the Refugeforums.com for their counsel and assistance regarding my boat’s electrical issues. And, I want to single out Big Bill from Big River Marine in West Memphis, Arkansas who talked to me several times while I was troubleshooting the myriad of issues I was faced with. He knows his stuff and the one night we talked several times for upwards an hour or more each time. Thank you so very much!

Anyway, it seems I have been able to correct (fix?) most of my immediate issues and maybe make some improvements. Let me say up front I love this boat as I am only the second owner and it was well-maintained. However, it is 23 years old and things have changed and improvements are available nowadays that weren’t before. Having said that, I am surprised that several of the issues I encountered were related to wiring performed by someone who could have done a better job. This is an area I can work with as I have had a soldering gun/iron in my hands since before I was 10 and have built all sorts of electronics and other items that used a “good” solder job and never until recently had I used crimps to join wires unless it was absolutely necessary to do so. Maybe it’s a matter of opinion but most of my issues seem related to how new wiring was added…

Let me start with what I changed and fixed and then come back to why:
A. Replaced power plug on trolling motor.
B. Redid wiring cable connection to trolling motor power plug.
C. Replaced glass fuse holder in battery compartment to trolling motor with a 40 AMP manual reset circuit breaker.
D. Replaced glass fuse holder in battery compartment to power for console dash panel (lights, bilge, aerator, fishfinders, utility light on side of console and lighted compass) and possibly for the gas gauge and tachometer.
E. Replaced power wire from the horn to console utility light – the horn power came from a wire from the junction at console (switches for aerator/bilge/lights), specifically, the aerator.
F. Redid wire junction from two fishfinders and compass LED light to power wire in E above.
G. Replaced assorted bare wire connections with soldered and crimped metal connectors as appropriate.

I am sure I am leaving something out but I believe the above are the primary things I performed before taking for a test trip yesterday on Lake Shelbyville. Remember, I have had multiple issues as outlined at the beginning of this thread and while I would love to fix everything and make additional improvements, I first had to take care of the immediate issues just so I could go fishing! Now for the details!


A. I replaced the trolling motor power plug as the original had corrosion inside and my attempts to clean the plug didn’t work. And, my final attempt to use electronic component spray cleaner had a negative impact on the plugs plastic…DOH!

B. This was the original issue for the trolling motor I noticed and involved my cutting off the old power plug, removing the crimp connectors, trimming the wires, soldering the ends of both cables, clean the connections with that component spray cleaner and then using that new crimp connectors provided when I purchased the new plug. I then used liquid electrical tape and covered the connections with two coats, let it dry and then used good electrical tape to cover and to be used as a bond to hold the connection together better (hopefully!).

C. The fuse protection was old. Also, I simply do not like the old type glass tubes but I was cutting it close as there was not much slack in the power cable that runs under the boat deck to the front for the trolling motor. For this I cut the tube fuse holder off right at the ends, stripped the wire off the power cable, soldered the twisted ends and placed them into a connector and after crimping it I also soldered both ends of the wires to this connector to ensure it would last. That was when I discovered the connectors I used were too large and would come right off the ends of the circuit breaker unless they were held in place by washers. Ran to Ace hardware to buy washers and they closed the door in my face at 8 PM. Came home and after only finding one washer, I decided to try smaller connectors and they worked! Again, I crimped and soldered them and then after cleaning the flux off the soldered connection (I did this for ALL my solder jobs, so just assume that from now on) I covered all but the ring connection end with liquid electrical tape and after drying, used electrical tape. As there was/is limited power cable length, I couldn’t just bolt the circuit breaker to something out of the way, so I temporarily wrapped the entire unit with the exposed terminals with electrical tape so it wouldn’t short while I determine how to address in a more permanent fashion. Bottom line, the trolling motor now works!!!

D. I traced the wring and found the primary power wire from the battery to the console which powers the aerator, bilge and a three-way switch for the lights and had been used to run the fishfinders off of, as well as the console side utility light and a very crappy offshoot to the compass for its LED light as well as the horn. This was simple fix back in the battery compartment as I had plenty of spare length in the wire. I replaced the tube fuse holder for glass fuses with an ATC covered fuse holder available from most stores. I soldered the connections, used liquid and rolled tape to protect. I think I put a 10 AMP fuse in. DONE!

E. This area was trickier. First off, I could see a number of problems what with exposed wires, connections made by just screwing a wire onto a “ground” that was the screw holding the windshield to the console, and the like. I also found a number of added wires which had nicks that exposed the wire underneath the protective covering to the elements AND shorts! Once I decided what to do and what had to be replaced, I then had to figure how to get at everything! Here I am in the dark with an LED headlamp, lying on my back looking up into the underside of the console where many of the wires were extremely difficult to get at, let alone fix! The primary power wire for the utility light/fishfinders/compass came off a wire that was simply screwed in at the horn with the other end shoved into the utility light. This then had the fishfinders and compass power leads spliced in the middle – this was already a problem area and even though solder had been used, it was corroded. I thought about unscrewing the instrument panel but that was out of the question, what with the steering wheel and rusted/corroded nuts and bolts holding it to the boat and the like. As I was starting to cry, I realized the three switches were on a separate panel that was held in place with four screws! I unscrewed that and lo and behold, I could now troubleshoot most of this area! While all three switches are still working, the elements have taken their toll BUT the wiring was in great shape for the most part. The wires to the horn were a little more difficult as they were screwed in and I had to get a screwdriver back in there and then use my fingers to finish the job. Using wire purchased from Wal-Mart ($4.88 for just 20 feet!), I decided I had to replace the wire either the boat manufacturer had installed or had been added afterward that was ran off the power side of the aerator switch to the light via a junction at the horn. This wire had also been tapped in a crude fashion where the insulation had been cut away and maybe a connection had been added – it was difficult to tell as it had corroded but at least they had used some solder. I found two spots where the insulation had been rubbed off and the wires underneath were exposed. This might have happened from friction but who knows. I cut a good length of wire and added a new connector at both the light and horn end. I made sure the wire was long enough so I could then cut it and splice in a new wire for the LED in the compass and a vastly improved connection for both fishfinders. Both fishfinders already have their own ATC fuses (which are covered) which I did myself using the same techniques described here. This splice was twisted wires that were soldered, and then covered in liquid and roll electrical tape. I still want to come back to this in the future and maybe do a fuse block or something as I hate splicing but it is a far cry better than what was there before! There had been different sizes and types of wire used to make connections and most were simply pressure fit to existing connections… As I had hit some rough water during the receding holiday weekend and had the compass bounce out of the holder (yeah, it was really rough but I had loosened the bolts too), the ground wire had ripped itself from the compass light. This wasn’t easy to fix. I ended up taking the remaining existing wire, cutting a new end, bending and soldering that end to form a plug-like end and was able to pressure fit it into the light. Used a toothpick as a shim and then covered with liquid electrical tape in the hopes it would hold. For the time being, I have decided to maintain the power lead (now soldered to a new connector) to the console utility light as it was near 3 AM when I was wrapping all this up on Friday night! I will redo this later. My first thought is to install a fuse block that will provide a new fused connection for each of the following: aerator; bilge; lights; fishfinders; utility lights; and for accessories. Whoops! I forgot that I also had the cigarette lighter power supply receptacle and I rewired it too. That one wire offshoot that powered the Fishfinders, utility light, compass light that was run off the aerator also powered this item…

I performed most of this work over a two night period with Bill walking me through the diagnosis stage on Wednesday and once again offering counsel on Friday night. Friday, I stayed at it till 3 AM and was able to churn out what I described above. Everything worked that night in the driveway – I had even replaced the light bulb for the stern light and it was brighter than ever! As I had a wedding on Saturday, the testing would have to wait till Sunday…

Sunday came and I headed over the Lake Shelbyville around 4:30 AM and that was when I remembered another issue – the trailer light poles. About six weeks ago on my second time out with the boat, and in rough, windy weather, I launched it and proceeded to break the PVC pipes. I replaced them and all was well but the epoxy didn’t hold and the one pole was just being held in place with duct tape! In addition, since the poles were movable, the wiring had been stressed and the lights come and go. This is now my next project which is to replace these poles and re-wire the trailer lights – suggestions are also welcome for this!

Anyway, I get to the lake and put in the water and am pleased to note the trolling motor works, the stern light works, the horn works, the utility light works, the fishfinders work (maybe even better than before???), the bilge works (thankfully) and (unfortunately in some respects) so does the aerator!!!!

Now, I saw unfortunately as this aerator is either on or off with NO timed refreshing. And, once you turn it off the water will run out unless you put the plug in which I did yesterday morning. All was fine until I discovered I had left the aerator on shall we say a little tooooo long the one time. How did I know? Well when I went to leave I discovered water on the deck!! Thankfully, the bilge runs and after 20 or more minutes it stopped throwing water out so I could somewhat safely head home. Hey, at least the Crappie I caught had plenty of fresh water!

And, I am wondering if by virtue of my redoing the electrical connections for both fishfinders that the new Humminbird 161 I recently added is now better able to see and portray fish on it?? For the last couple weeks, I was concerned that this 161 wasn’t finding much while the Humminbird 565 was. It was almost like night and day between the two!! So here is a question for you all, that if you have a poor power connection on your fishfinder, could a BETTER power connection improve performance?

Anyway, I know this is more detail than most would ever desire but I wanted to share my discoveries in the hopes that others might be better prepared to do the same in the future, and, that you all might have additional ideas on what I could accomplish on my own now that I have made these fixes, corrections and improvements!

Also and just as importantly is to thank Bill for staying on the phone with me for maybe several hours walking me through them. His knowledge and abilities to repair a boat are only exceeded by his willingness to assist! Thank you!