Fishing around Docks, Legal? Ethical?

From what I've been reading the posts on thunderbird crappie, and it seems to me the crappie like the new boat slips really well, therefore I'm trying to figure out a way to lease a boat slip. Only problem is Bob Davis wants $2340.00 for a slip. As he explained it to me, renters can only fish their own slips(I personally think thats great) I 've got a slip at Eufaula and there are no such restriction and there is ALLWAYS some one fishing my slip because I have taken time to bait it with ceadar and plastic and it has become one of the most productive slips at the marina. So I got to thinking that maybe there are other crappie fisherman that would like to rent a slip at Thunderbird for crappie fishing but found it just to expensive. If this is the case and three of us go in together that would be $780.00@yr. any one intrested??

that is great in theory kls...but boats fish all those slips....and with a really long pole can reach all the way to the front of your slip...there are no state or city restrictions that limit access to the water in between your slip....even though some try to post signs.....not gonna stop them.

I witnessed exactly that happen at Eufaula marina earlier this year --- a few of the slip lesse's followed the bass boat everywhere he tried to infringe in the slips and the bass fisherman got disgruntled and left ---Its a shame that some of our so-called sportsman feel that its ok to infringe on someones elses hard work in an attempt to reep rewards from someone elses hard work. I don't have any idea how often something like that happens,and nothing can be done about the waterway leading to the slips but just off the top of my head I think a net strung across the opening of the slip should curtail most if not all of that type of conduct in the slip that I've got baited for fishing.
Kent

KLS- Depending on the type of net and location you strung across the opening you could get sighted by a game ranger for illegal netting.

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Originally Posted by KLS

I witnessed exactly that happen at Eufaula marina earlier this year --- a few of the slip lesse's followed the bass boat everywhere he tried to infringe in the slips and the bass fisherman got disgruntled and left ---Its a shame that some of our so-called sportsman feel that its ok to infringe on someones elses hard work in an attempt to reep rewards from someone elses hard work. I don't have any idea how often something like that happens,and nothing can be done about the waterway leading to the slips but just off the top of my head I think a net strung across the opening of the slip should curtail most if not all of that type of conduct in the slip that I've got baited for fishing.
Kent

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KLS , just because you rent a slip , does not mean you own the water. That's public water.

If I were the bass fisherman who was harassed by those people, I would've gotten their boat number and filed a legal complaint.

You put that cover in the lake at your own risk. That's not your water, and that is not your fish.

Nothing I can't stand more, is dock owners who think they own public water.

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Originally Posted by TwoBits

KLS , just because you rent a slip , does not mean you own the water. That's public water.

If I were the bass fisherman who was harassed by those people, I would've gotten their boat number and filed a legal complaint.

You put that cover in the lake at your own risk. That's not your water, and that is not your fish.

Nothing I can't stand more, is dock owners who think they own public water.

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This kind of discussion is what makes this country so great. One person thinks that he has purchased something and that should give him certain rights, another person thinks because there is public access that the first person has no rights. One thing I must agree with is that it is not my water and not my fish, and I don't believe I ever implied that it was. but I must add that it is my boat slip and I have a legal right to deny access, just as the fish on my jug lines should not be taken by some stranger just because they are in public water, those jugs should be respected as some one elses and not be taken advantage of by anyone. I'd be intrested in your opinion of fishing off the boat ramp when it is clear that no fishing is allowed.

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Originally Posted by cricket george

KLS- Depending on the type of net and location you strung across the opening you could get sighted by a game ranger for illegal netting.

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Thanks for your input.
I haven't given it a lot of thought because I doubt that I will have anyone intrested in leasing a slip to crappie fish - it is after all quite a bit of money.
But what I was thinking to get some of that bright orange netting that the state and contractors use to block off drop offs and holes that are left uncovered and attaching it above the water line about 8' high across the entrance of the slip. that of course is assuming I could get approval to do so

I don't blame you for not wanting anyone fishing in your slip KLS. If I rented or owned one and took the time to put in structure and what not, I wouldn't want anyone fishing it either. The above water netting is a good idea to keep passing boaters from fishing your slip but the problem is that it doesn't stop evryone else on the dock from fishing your spot. I think they will be the primary interlopers.

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Originally Posted by KLS

This kind of discussion is what makes this country so great. One person thinks that he has purchased something and that should give him certain rights, another person thinks because there is public access that the first person has no rights. One thing I must agree with is that it is not my water and not my fish, and I don't believe I ever implied that it was. but I must add that it is my boat slip and I have a legal right to deny access, just as the fish on my jug lines should not be taken by some stranger just because they are in public water, those jugs should be respected as some one elses and not be taken advantage of by anyone. I'd be intrested in your opinion of fishing off the boat ramp when it is clear that no fishing is allowed.

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No, the only legal right you may have, is for someone to step ON your dock or slip, and I'm not even sure about that.

That's public water.

If someone puts a jug line in public water, then they just taking their chances. No different than leaving a trap on public lands.

I don't see the correlation between fishing from a boat ramp where they could possibly impede others launching boats and you claiming ownership to public water under your boat slip.

Whatever you put in the water , you just take you chances. No different than planting a brush pile out on a point on the lake somewhere. Anyone who finds it, can fish it. You have no legal right.

And I really don't like anyone confiscating public water for their commercial purposes and to make a profit from, and then restricting who can fish in that water.

My tax money built the lake along with yours.

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Originally Posted by TwoBits

KLS , just because you rent a slip , does not mean you own the water.
You put that cover in the lake at your own risk. That's not your water, and that is not your fish.

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True, he only owns or rents the structure, and on USACE lakes, he can be required to remove the structure at any time.

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Originally Posted by KLS

but I must add that it is my boat slip and I have a legal right to deny access, just as the fish on my jug lines should not be taken by some stranger just because they are in public water, those jugs should be respected as some one elses and not be taken advantage of by anyone. I'd be intrested in your opinion of fishing off the boat ramp when it is clear that no fishing is allowed.

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You only have the right to deny access to the structure itself and not the water adjacent to or below it.

Your jug line comparison is somewhat flawed though. By Oklahoma law, all jug, limb and trot lines must have the owners name address and license # attached to them and it is illegal for anyone else to harvest fish from them. They are the property of whoever has legally set them and so are the fish that they catch, but the water that surroubds then is public domain.

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Originally Posted by TwoBits

No, the only legal right you may have, is for someone to step ON your dock or slip, and I'm not even sure about that.

That's public water.

If someone puts a jug line in public water, then they just taking their chances. No different than leaving a trap on public lands.

I don't see the correlation between fishing from a boat ramp where they could possibly impede others launching boats and you claiming ownership to public water under your boat slip.

Whatever you put in the water , you just take you chances. No different than planting a brush pile out on a point on the lake somewhere. Anyone who finds it, can fish it. You have no legal right.

And I really don't like anyone confiscating public water for their commercial purposes and to make a profit from, and then restricting who can fish in that water.

My tax money built the lake along with yours.

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The boat ramp issue is totally different. If it is on private land, the owner has a right to restrict any and all access to it. If it is on USACE land, they have the right to regulate use of it.

there really are no gray areas on this subject. KLS, you just happen to believe contrary to what the law says.

Let me say this though, if you don't want me to fish around your dock, then tell me so and I won't because I am considerate of others (some might take exception with that statement :D:confused:) There are plenty of other docks and slip to fish around if that is what I want to do.....And of course, if you are there fishing, it is easy to see to it that others can't squirrel in on you.

I see Tim and I posted at the same time.

I used some existing posts to start this new thread, because I thought it was interesting and needed to be discussed further. Some docks are leased and some are actually owned, so I am speaking to both owned and leased.

To me there are 2 parts to this question.

Part 1

I have been part of a group that put brush in several slips in Eufaula Cove Marina. The marina had a gate that stated eveyone welcome to the marina and cafe but only slip leesees and their guests can fish from the docks. We leasedd 4 slips and we had a work day or two a year and put in over 50 cedar trees a year in our slips. The slips were not side by side so we had several different areas and depths to fish. The agreement we had was that any of us and any of our guests could fish any of the 4 slips. Since some lived nearby they fished almost daily, I usually only got to fish a few days a month. Our guests were told up front, you can only come when we are here with you. Don't come without us and don't bring any friends. These were the marina rules and we agreed with them. Our problem was, some of the adjoining slip leesees fished our docks and so did their many friends. The kicker was we told them about our work days and invited them to help, then they too could fish any of the baited docks along with their friends. Most never helped, some did and we expanded to 6-8 baited docks. The real problem was the FRIENDS of the slip leesees who didn't help put in brush. We went down several times and FRIENDS of Joe, Jon, Jill, my brothers uncle in law, etc would be fishing our slips. We would ask them to leave and it was like we were the worst guys in the world. The rules of the marina clearly stated only slip leesees and their invited guests can fish on the dock. We fought it for over 5 years.

Part 2

I feel the water is public owned and just because someone owns a slip doesn't prevent the public from fishing it from the water. I have been in a boat fishing around docks and people on the dock tell me not to toss up into or under their dock. That is where I have a problem. I don't feel like the dock owner has any right to prevent fishing around their dock as long as the person is not standing on or tied up to their dock. The water is public and everything under it. The dock itself is owned but not the water or fish. Just like the point made in one of the previous posts. If I put a brush pile in the lake, it is not mine, anyone can fish it. Now the jug line, if I have my name on it and all the other info required, it is mine. That is stealing in my eyes and the eyes of the Lake Patrol. If I fail to put any info on the jug that MAY BE a different story.

It usually comes back to the same thing in all areas of life. 5% of people ruin it for the other 95%. It is the 5% of people fishing ON docks they don't have permission to fish ON and the 5% of dock owners trying to prevent people from fishing around their dock from a boat that cause the problem.

Sorry about the long post, but it is a great subject that I am passionate about.

Odie

around here you have to get a permit to put a dock in or around public water so the person cant stop you from fishing but you cant tie off on their dock or put your feet on there docks so they get smart and put boards all around where you cant shoot their docks

Red Bud Marina on Oologah lake has leased the water for 50 foot around all docks from the Copr. of Eng.. Therefore thay clain you are trespassing on their property. I hope this does not spread to other lakes.
My bottom line is I will not spend one DINE at their business.

Part 2

I feel the water is public owned and just because someone owns a slip doesn't prevent the public from fishing it from the water. I have been in a boat fishing around docks and people on the dock tell me not to toss up into or under their dock. That is where I have a problem. I don't feel like the dock owner has any right to prevent fishing around their dock as long as the person is not standing on or tied up to their dock. The water is public and everything under it. The dock itself is owned but not the water or fish. Just like the point made in one of the previous posts. If I put a brush pile in the lake, it is not mine, anyone can fish it. Now the jug line, if I have my name on it and all the other info required, it is mine. That is stealing in my eyes and the eyes of the Lake Patrol. If I fail to put any info on the jug that MAY BE a different story.

It usually comes back to the same thing in all areas of life. 5% of people ruin it for the other 95%. It is the 5% of people fishing ON docks they don't have permission to fish ON and the 5% of dock owners trying to prevent people from fishing around their dock from a boat that cause the problem.

Sorry about the long post, but it is a great subject that I am passionate about.

Odie[/QUOTE]

Doug, that doesn't just "May be" a different story. Ok law requies the name and info tag. If they are jugging w/o it, they are violating the law.

As seems to be the way of life in general.

Do you still have the slips rented? I'd be interested in going in on that type of arrangement.

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Originally Posted by jiggshooter

around here you have to get a permit to put a dock in or around public water so the person cant stop you from fishing but you cant tie off on their dock or put your feet on there docks so they get smart and put boards all around where you cant shoot their docks

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Or put a door on the entrance and a gate to the approach.

I paradise marina at Gibson give keys to owners that are stamped "Do Not Copy". That may stop folks from coming down when the lessee isn't there, but as Odie pointed out, that doesn't stop other lessees from fishing your slip.

I agree with everyone to a point...lol...I sound like a politician. Really though, I've set brush out in lakes several times and at least 50% of the time, someone is fishing on my piles before I can get to them. Of course I get a little irritated, but I don't blame them. I've fished a lot of brush piles that I know someone else did the work for. Thats just the way it goes. Docks are no different in my opinion. If you fish from a boat, you should be able to cast to any water you can get to. Now manners are a separate issue. If someone is fishing a slip from the dock, i'd skip over it, just like I wouldn't pull up to someone on the big water fishing a brush pile.

It is not a problem with legality it is a respect issue , if you were to put crappie structure in the lake and someone else is fishing it , respect it and move on to another place , if you are slinging baits into a boat dock with people on their docks you have no respect , I place brush in open water and have no problem with others fishing them if they are there before me and I also bait docks to fish , and have had fisherman try to fish them while im there , that pisses me off , if im not there I dont care just use some respect.

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Originally Posted by goterdone1

It is not a problem with legality it is a respect issue , if you were to put crappie structure in the lake and someone else is fishing it , respect it and move on to another place , if you are slinging baits into a boat dock with people on their docks you have no respect , I place brush in open water and have no problem with others fishing them if they are there before me and I also bait docks to fish , and have had fisherman try to fish them while im there , that pisses me off , if im not there I dont care just use some respect.

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What he said. I think that just about sums it up.

I think though that KLS is saying that no one should fish around a dock that he brushed up whether there is no one there or not.

I'd like to switch gears a little bit and pose a somewhat related question to everyone here on this discussion. Lets say I go up to Winganon bridge, or Blocker bridge or some place similar. Sometimes the best place to fish in these areas is right on the corners or under the bridge. I'm out with my long rods and I'm pushing jigs in 10 foot of water but in those areas the bank is lined with people who are casting out into the lake. If I troll on through there the bank guys are going to start cussing me. Is it rude of me to troll through those areas or is rude of the bank fisherman to assume they have the sole right to fish the lake under the bridge? This isn't really a problem at Blocker but I basically don't even bother fishing Wiganon because of this. It's always loaded with bank fisherman casting as far as they can and at least I feel like a jerk if I cruise through there.

meatdragger: From being on both sides of this, i say the boat should yield to the bank fishermen just because the boat can easily find other places to fish. Of course, it really depends on who is there first. If a boat is anchored, then bank fishermen should respect his space and move on. If the bank guys are there first, its their fishing hole. Just my opinion.....

Sounds like someone opened a can of worms here. This is a touchy situation but I would think it would be better to put brush piles etc. in a place where only you know about them. We rent a slip on Ft. Cobb and people come up to the slip areas and fish from their boats. It's legal. On the lake some steal from your jugs but that is a chance you take when you are not around. Wouldn't it be great if all people were kind, generous, courteous, helpful and especially honest?

As far as Wiganon goes, I've been in that situation before, slow trolling the rip rap searching for a hot spot. Fishermen on the bank casting in all directions. I once found a hot spot within casting distance from the bank and had two guys yell at me for working the area. Neither had been catching fish as they had been fishing too shallow. I was out in 14' of water. I bought a boat to be able to search and find places to fish. I didn't fish close to the bank fishermen to invade anyones territory. If I would have cast a jig below a bobber close to the bank, you think the people on the bank would not toss over there too? Tough call though, I guess each situation could be different. I'd never purposely pull into an area to fish that a bank fisherman was already at, but if I'm there before anyone, working the bank until I find a decent spot and someone sets up on the bank, I'll fish where ever I want to.

As far as fishing docks from a boat, the only rights the dock owner/lessee has would be that someone in a boat could not tie off to their dock. Casting into their dock would be rude though. Casting around the outside is legal. If I had a dock, I'd have to rig something up to hang at the overhead door that would guarantee costing someone their lure and be able to start a collection. I might even post a sign stating, "please cast your high dollar tackle here". As long as they couldn't retrieve said lost tackle, it's now the owners.

Couple of weeks ago while fishing from the bank, I had an older couple with their son in his late 20's or early 30's come into the cove in their pontoon boat. I was casting out about 30 feet next to a buoy marker for fish habitat and doing well catching fish.

These clowns made a little circle and then eased up to the buoy and tied off to the marker. It was quite obvious I was fishing it, my slip corks are easily seen and they knew they had infringed upon "my" spot.

They began to fish and I decided not to say anything. Then they pulled out the 12v filet knife and began cleaning their catch. This was the straw that broke the camel's back but even then, I decided it just wasn't worth a confrontation so I reeled in and left.

These things tend to escalate and can get out of hand very quickly. There are many people serving 20 years in the pen for manslaughter over something banal that escalated into a fight that takes someone's life.

Crappie fishing is such an enjoyable sport but even so, there are people out there that will surely test your ability to remain calm and move along.

Man in his nature is naturally territorial and will claim an area for his own even if he doesn't legally own that area. Probably goes back to our primordial days as cavemen and that area reserved for hunting meant the difference in life or death.

I figure some area for fishing is not worth arguing about, much less defending and getting into a ruckus that could have tragic results.

I strongly advise anyone to move along if they find themselves in a situation that could get out of hand. Trust me, the judge or jury are not going to care about "who was first on the fishing spot" when they are deciding your fate for busting a cap into some ignorant/rude fisherman.

Have a nice day.:D

Reaper- I think I might hang a little chain link on the O/H door so that when lures hit the door they might hang up in the chain link.

Why Cant WE All Get Along.Thats What Fishin Is All About!!!!I cant tell you how many corks and lines have been thrown out around me while floating in my tube the last month.I even have told some of them bank fisherman where to throw out on structure I had found either by hanging up on it or with my feet.I was even asked to get some of their corks for them they had hung up.I fish Thunderbird in my float tube all around the marina area and never had anyone tell me I couldnt fish there.The REAL KEY to all this is to get there real real early or late,before those dock renters get there or after they go to bed!I thought this was a very interesting discussion and agree with STINK.Life is way to short to wind up in BIG MAC Over trying to catch A BIG OLE CRAPPIE.I Love to slip in my old buddies new dock before he gets there normally around 10am.You can be very quiet and low profile in a float tube,HAHAHA.JUST KIDDIN.Good Luck And Great Fishing .THE OLD HOOKER,Ronnie

lol...papa...the tube is the best secret weapon out there for getting on brush piles around baited slips....the tube will sometimes even slip right next to the boat that is setting there and you can fish all the way to the front of the dock....I have fished them alright...but I have never gone around slips that are being fished by others...now that is going a little too far....I own a dock and it is a hotbed on tournament saturdays for bass....but boats are quick to flee when I head down to do some crappie fishing....but I have even invited a few boats to stay around and told them exactly where the best spots were before too

as for trying to stop someone from fishing your slip....check into a sun shade that will go across the whole slip opening or even a spider net....now that maybe against slip rules...but that will for sure stop outside intruders but not the guy next to your slip....I think the thing to remember is bottom line......It is public water and it will be fished by the public......so keep that in mind and lease at your own risk....If you have problems I am sure that they would be way less than the days that you go out and sack up fish......Good Luck!

Papa scruggs, when I was thinking about inquiring about a boat slip I had to wait on Bob Davis to arrive and I couln't help but notice you out in your tube fishing around the marina and catching some pretty nice crappie that really got my "jucies flowing" about wanting to get serious about renting a boat slip to get in on what looked to be some good crappie fishing.(I gave up "tubing" every since a snake climbed into the tupe with me)---This has been a great discussion and I found out quite a bit about the "personalitys" (in my opinon)of those of you that posted your thoughts on the subject. Hope everyone finds a hot spot and catches their limit.
If sometime In the future you travel by the new boat slips and find one completey "inclosed" ---Thats me!
PS - - still looking for a couple of crappie fisherman that are intrested in developing a good place to catch crappie.

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Originally Posted by KLS

Papa scruggs, when I was thinking about inquiring about a boat slip I had to wait on Bob Davis to arrive and I couln't help but notice you out in your tube fishing around the marina and catching some pretty nice crappie that really got my "jucies flowing" about wanting to get serious about renting a boat slip to get in on what looked to be some good crappie fishing.(I gave up "tubing" every since a snake climbed into the tupe with me)---This has been a great discussion and I found out quite a bit about the "personalitys" (in my opinon)of those of you that posted your thoughts on the subject. Hope everyone finds a hot spot and catches their limit.
If sometime In the future you travel by the new boat slips and find one completey "inclosed" ---Thats me!
PS - - still looking for a couple of crappie fisherman that are intrested in developing a good place to catch crappie.

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Drop me a PM.

Very well said Stink. Have a good day!!!

You know what, I was fishing that spot years before you came along and put your dock over the top of my fishing hole. What gives you the right to cover up my fishing hole with your dock? Just an argument form the other side of the coin. I don't think anyone is going to catch all the fish under your precious dock anyway. And besides that, they are not just your fish. The only argument anyone should have is, is someone damaging your property (dock) or not. Can't we just be curtious and treat each other with respect. If someone is already there and fishing find another spot. How hard can that be?

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Originally Posted by slavenst

You know what, I was fishing that spot years before you came along and put your dock over the top of my fishing hole. What gives you the right to cover up my fishing hole with your dock? Just an argument form the other side of the coin. I don't think anyone is going to catch all the fish under your precious dock anyway. And besides that, they are not just your fish. The only argument anyone should have is, is someone damaging your property (dock) or not. Can't we just be curtious and treat each other with respect. If someone is already there and fishing find another spot. How hard can that be?

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While I don't know as I quite share your angst toward dock builders, I must admit I share your point of view. two of my favorite spots on Sycamore bay were covered up by docks put in by a church (as I understand) a few years ago, and I don't mean one or two little docks. these are more like their own private marina. It virually eliminated fishing Sycamore bay for me. I still don't understand why the Coprs allowed such a massive project in such a small cove.

As to being courteous, I thnk too many folks are waaaayyyyy too possessive when it comes to fishing spots.

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Originally Posted by SmokyOkie

As to being courteous, I thnk too many folks are waaaayyyyy too possessive when it comes to fishing spots.

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That was my point. It's like the guy in Longtown shooting at the water when someone comes into the cove he has a dock in, just to drive the fishermen out. He thinks he owns the whole cove.

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Originally Posted by slavenst

That was my point. It's like the guy in Longtown shooting at the water when someone comes into the cove he has a dock in, just to drive the fishermen out. He thinks he owns the whole cove.

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I would get the law in on that stuff, and I magine the Corps might want to revoke his dock permit as well.

I understand it was turned over to the sherrifs department and the Lake Patrol.

It sure needed to be. I'm very surprised the Corps didn't revoke his permit.

If its good brush, in the right location, it does not matter how many people fish the brush, new fish are going to move on to it constantly, or move away from it. To think otherwise, implies that you own the fish that your brush attracts.

To think that someone is fishing brush you set out and taking fish you could be catching, just does not hold water.

Now , if they try to fish that brush while you are there, then that is a horse of a different color.

But for anyone to think they have ownership of public water is crossing the line.

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Originally Posted by TwoBits

new fish are going to move on to it constantly, or move away from it. But for anyone to think they have ownership of public water is crossing the line.

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I do concur.