H.B. Greg

I want to ask a question, dont take it like I am bashing H.Bird or Lowrance. Now with all this talk on gps issues (the donut) with H.B. can you tell me why I should spend my money with H.B. and get 597ci HD DI instead of going with lowrances HDS series or ther Elite series with there DSI. I posted in the donut post how I am on the fence. I like the H.B. with DI but there is a voice in the back of my head saying stick with what you have which is Lowrance on my boat but neither has gps. What holds me back alot on the Lowrance is the complaining of the customer service. Like I said I am not bashing either company I am looking for help trying to pick a unit out. This is alot of money for me to spend on myself rather than my family. Thanks

ezgo,
I will not post anything about the Lowrance unit as I do not have one, I have not run one and I just don’t get into the whole us versus them thing (though I will post to correct mis-information about our products). From what I heard though; the 597ci HD DI has additional sonar in the form of two conventional (or 2D) sonar beams and a higher resolution display. We have a great bunch of folks in our Customer Resources department. There are several of us that try and help with answering questions as well when we can.

Sorry but I gotta cut this short as I have a meeting in 3 minutes!

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Originally Posted by Humminbird_Greg

ezgo,
I will not post anything about the Lowrance unit as I do not have one, I have not run one and I just don’t get into the whole us versus them thing (though I will post to correct mis-information about our products). From what I heard though; the 597ci HD DI has additional sonar in the form of two conventional (or 2D) sonar beams and a higher resolution display. We have a great bunch of folks in our Customer Resources department. There are several of us that try and help with answering questions as well when we can.

Sorry but I gotta cut this short as I have a meeting in 3 minutes!

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Thanks for the info I get where your coming from with the us vs them thing, I am just trying to find a answer on what is a good fit to me. My post sounds harsh but I dont mean it that way. I am leaning real hard on the 597ci HD DI.

Hi Ezgo, The Humminbird 597 has sonar, GPS and Down Imaging. The comparable Lowrance Elite only has 2 of the 3. ie DI and mapping, sonar and Gps but not Sonar, GPS and Down imaging like the 597 unit you mentioned..

You also mentioned Customer Service as a point. Do a google search on both Humminbird Customer Service and Lowrance Customer Service and go from there. Not to mention you got Joby and Greg on here. Doug and myself pop in here as well to help however possible. If I can be of any help with questions or concerns shoot me a pm or email.

Mike

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Originally Posted by ezgo

I want to ask a question, dont take it like I am bashing H.Bird or Lowrance. Now with all this talk on gps issues (the donut) with H.B. can you tell me why I should spend my money with H.B. and get 597ci HD DI instead of going with lowrances HDS series or ther Elite series with there DSI. I posted in the donut post how I am on the fence. I like the H.B. with DI but there is a voice in the back of my head saying stick with what you have which is Lowrance on my boat but neither has gps. What holds me back alot on the Lowrance is the complaining of the customer service. Like I said I am not bashing either company I am looking for help trying to pick a unit out. This is alot of money for me to spend on myself rather than my family. Thanks

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Remember that the "Donut" is an easy fix by HB..it's simply a programming item...

HB will eventually fix the "Donut"...

HB is like any other big corporation....they have to know that their investment (paying programmers to write the correct code to eliminate the " Donut") will be offset by enough profits to make the investment change feasible...

That is why it is SO important to keep "Project HB Donut" alive and moving....

We are making noise that "the powers that be" at HB will hear and realize that HB is losing money to the competition because of a simple software fix...

Rickie (an almost satisfied HB owner)...

I did not take your post that way ezgo.
You should try and figure out what unit would work better for you. It would be best if you could spend on-water time doing this but that is not always possible. All you can do at this point is to try and understand how each units works given the information you can find and than decide which would work best for you.

I started the decision post. I think this post may have closed the deal for me on the 597 ci hd di combo. I'm going to give HB a shot.

Good sale Tmike! You are the man!

Dont feel bad, Jason has his moments...

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Originally Posted by rnvinc

Remember that the "Donut" is an easy fix by HB..it's simply a programming item...

HB will eventually fix the "Donut"...

HB is like any other big corporation....they have to know that their investment (paying programmers to write the correct code to eliminate the " Donut") will be offset by enough profits to make the investment change feasible...

That is why it is SO important to keep "Project HB Donut" alive and moving....

We are making noise that "the powers that be" at HB will hear and realize that HB is losing money to the competition because of a simple software fix...

Rickie (an almost satisfied HB owner)...

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I agree Rickie, but when it comes to the paid gun, there won't be a mention of the donut. Easier to sell the unit based on Customer Service. Features apparently don't matter any more.....

I'll take a donut anytime compared to a company who obsoletes $2000 LCX units as unrepairable after only 3 years or so of service. I go to many fishing sites, and this is the only one I hear people complaining about the donut. Probably 95% of the users don't even know what people are talking about when folks mention the donut. Pretty simple solution, if you don't like the donut, move on to something else. I ran Lowrance stuff, when their customer service dropped the ball on me, I moved on. Hey I got a couple year old Lowrance H2OC, know what, it doesn't have a donut. Know why? It takes about 20 minutes to get lock on satellites, then as soon as you move, it loses them. Not only no donut, no position whatsoever!

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Originally Posted by Shellback

I'll take a donut anytime compared to a company who obsoletes $2000 LCX units as unrepairable after only 3 years or so of service. I go to many fishing sites, and this is the only one I hear people complaining about the donut. Probably 95% of the users don't even know what people are talking about when folks mention the donut. Pretty simple solution, if you don't like the donut, move on to something else. I ran Lowrance stuff, when their customer service dropped the ball on me, I moved on. Hey I got a couple year old Lowrance H2OC, know what, it doesn't have a donut. Know why? It takes about 20 minutes to get lock on satellites, then as soon as you move, it loses them. Not only no donut, no position whatsoever!

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Sorry that people are complaining about the donut Shellback. As someone who's owned both, and others that do to, I think it's a valid argument. We're not paid salesmen, just guys who really spend their hard earned money to buy electronics. Sorry if we want the stuff to function correctly. HB has had GPS problems for years, don't you remember the high priced GPS puck, and all the updates. This isn't a new issue, and just because this is the only site you see complaints on doesn't mean we are wrong.

When the best sales weapon these guys have is to bash the customer service of Lowrance, that should tell potential buyers something about the units. Like you said, we'll continue to move on.

Ezgo, I fully understand the money thing the way the economy is, my suggestion is research,research,research. Do not buy one till you are very comfortable shelling out the money. I know the last time I was on the Lowrance website they had a simulator on the units but do not know if they have any on the new Di and Si units. Maybe HB Greg can put a bug in the ear with the powers to be in a meeting to get a simulator on thier website because I know they do not have a simulator, What a great sales pitch, Try it before you buy it without a salesman pushing for a sale at the counter! By the way I have a HB 987si and a 997si on my boat and I like them. So Ezgo do not jump into a purchase until you want to, Di,Si and GPS is not going away!

Good point shellback. I have no beef with HB. I like the units I have had. They have been good to me for service too. That's why I'm buying the 998 anyway, donut and all. Do I wish the donut was not a problem? Sure do.

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Originally Posted by talltimber

Good point shellback. I have no beef with HB. I like the units I have had. They have been good to me for service too. That's why I'm buying the 998 anyway, donut and all. Do I wish the donut was not a problem? Sure do.

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would be nice if HB had a 2yr warranty. That says something about covering customers. IMO

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

would be nice if HB had a 2yr warranty. That says something about covering customers. IMO

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They need a 2 year warranty, cause half the time you are without the unit waiting on repairs or replacement. http://www.crappie.com/crappie/fishi...ice-sucks.html LOL!

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Originally Posted by Shellback

They need a 2 year warranty, cause half the time you are without the unit waiting on repairs or replacement. http://www.crappie.com/crappie/fishi...ice-sucks.html LOL!

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Again, the Customer Service is the only argument left for the HB faithful. If Lowrance gets it worked out, there's really going to be a problem for the HB guys. 2 year warranty is 2 year warranty when you pay 3K for a unit. That says you care, and you believe in your product. Period.

This donut thing really has you fired up.

And whoa be the guy that comes in here and talks bad about Lowrance customer service. Instead of getting to the root of the matter, he is going to get beat up and belittled.

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Originally Posted by Stymie

And whoa be the guy that comes in here and talks bad about Lowrance customer service. Instead of getting to the root of the matter, he is going to get beat up and belittled.

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whoa be the guy that talks about the donut. I don't mind bashing customer service when it's justified, and when that's the only weapon left, it speaks to how good the units are. No probs here. I like both companies, I've owned units from both, neither company gives me free stuff, or pays me to talk good about them.

I like donuts, mmmm good with coffee in the morning, ummmmm the lady at the counter gives me good customer service when I order the jelly filled ones, mmmmmdonuts, great to have.

everybody quit griping and get ready to go fishing.

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Originally Posted by beagle man

I like donuts, mmmm good with coffee in the morning, ummmmm the lady at the counter gives me good customer service when I order the jelly filled ones, mmmmmdonuts, great to have.

everybody quit griping and get ready to go fishing.

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Beagle, that's what I wish I could do. Eat donuts and go fishing. I may have to buy and auger for next winter.

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

whoa be the guy that talks about the donut. I don't mind bashing customer service when it's justified, and when that's the only weapon left, it speaks to how good the units are. No probs here. I like both companies, I've owned units from both, neither company gives me free stuff, or pays me to talk good about them.

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Who is paid? Who is getting free stuff? I want some of that action.

I'll say a few positive things about HB besides outstanding customer service aka "the only argument we have left".
1-They brought the biggest innovation to sonar since sonar to the market several years ahead of Lowrance.
2-They supported their product well even when they had a monopoly during those early years, and keep in mind this was new technology for everyone, I think in ways they were learning about SI as much as we were.
3-I have a 2007 unit that now has 2011 features on it (including adding DI, free...), added at no cost to me through firmware updates supplied by HB, you think that would ever happen w/ Lowrance? If I had a 2007 Lowrance it would be a paperweight on my desk if I ever had a problem with it.

Project Donut is more about helping HB help themselves than it is about bashing them. Those of us who are concerned about getting this fixed are doing it because we want to eliminate what we see as pretty much the only negative there is with HB right now, albeit a big one and one that several other gps co's out there have had solved for more than a few years.

I'll admit, I am a Lowrance CS victim, I have been burned badly on service for more than one product by them and unless they come with an amazing quantam leap innovation at some point in the future I can pretty safely say I will never do business w/ them again. I have never in my life been treated with less respect in a CS situation (where I was in the right 2 different times, mind you) in my lifetime, and I'm talking about dealing with management and being yelled at by a guy who is wrong and shouldn't raise his voice even if he's right, not some entry level kid. CS is the simplest concept but so many co's get it wrong, especially in the advent of internet forums. You do it right and look at HB to see what happens, you do it wrong and you wind up with a ton of posts like this one about your co., go figure. Also, Lowrance - Gaskets, they keep the water out, look into it....

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Originally Posted by Release to the Grease...

I'll say a few positive things about HB besides outstanding customer service aka "the only argument we have left".
1-They brought the biggest innovation to sonar since sonar to the market several years ahead of Lowrance.
2-They supported their product well even when they had a monopoly during those early years, and keep in mind this was new technology for everyone, I think in ways they were learning about SI as much as we were.
3-I have a 2007 unit that now has 2011 features on it (including adding DI, free...), added at no cost to me through firmware updates supplied by HB, you think that would ever happen w/ Lowrance? If I had a 2007 Lowrance it would be a paperweight on my desk if I ever had a problem with it.

Project Donut is more about helping HB help themselves than it is about bashing them. Those of us who are concerned about getting this fixed are doing it because we want to eliminate what we see as pretty much the only negative there is with HB right now, albeit a big one and one that several other gps co's out there have had solved for more than a few years.

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I agree with you, HB had Side imaging first. No argument there. Does that mean it's better? That's a judgement call. Plenty of things have come out, only to be improved by the originator, and others. Automobiles for example, computers, etc.

Yes they support the unit, especially in the first year. After that, it get's expensive and in some cases you need to either pay it, or bite the bullet and upgrade. True for both units, with the exception that you get an extra year with Lowrance. I really wonder why HB didn't step up and match that?

And thank you HB for the units that can have the new features. I'm sure there are a lot of 797, 9XX people that aren't so happy, because their units are now obsolete for new upgrades. This happens though, with most technology.

There's a lot of mention of "FREE" these days from the marketing guys. Both companies update software and features and don't charge for it. That's a more then fair statement.

If Customer service really fails and screws up, I agree people should complain, from either company. Now as for the obsolete Lowrance units, it's widely known that they are discounting new units for those folks. In some cases it's quite a discount. To me, that's a stand up thing to do.

When most people ask for a comparison of the units, the first thing that's mentioned is customer service, and then some fight ensue's. Why not discuss the features, performance?

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Originally Posted by Stymie

Who is paid? Who is getting free stuff? I want some of that action.

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So you think since Doug and Tmike are both sponsored by HB, that there's no benefit for them? You think they are going to have something negative to say?

The features and performance on my bird are great, I don't own a Lowrance SI unit (and won't ever) so I can't compare the two. It does seem like Lowrances system is a more involved and expensive install and I know I heard a lot of people complaining that their Navionics chips wouldn't work on the HD units, don't know if that issue has been solved or not.

The only thing I want looked at on my HB is the donut and I will shut my piehole.

MD - You sure you don't work for Lowrance?

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

So you think since Doug and Tmike are both sponsored by HB, that there's no benefit for them? You think they are going to have something negative to say?

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Well I don't get paid by HB. I think they got a good product. I also don't go around bashing Lowrance or anyone that is trying to help out their customers.

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Originally Posted by Stymie

Well I don't get paid by HB. I think they got a good product. I also don't go around bashing Lowrance or anyone that is trying to help out their customers.

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You zoom in and comment about every post I make on electronics, so something I'm saying must be correct.

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

You zoom in and comment about every post I make on electronics, so something I'm saying must be correct.

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I think RG nailed it and now you're trying to deflect it.

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Originally Posted by Stymie

I think RG nailed it and now you're trying to deflect it.

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Stymie, I'm hearing crickets right now on a response to my last post :)

I don't work for Lowrance. Not sure what there was to deflect or answer. I've been on here since 2005 so I'm sure it would have come out before now.

You guys are funny. Stymie deflected what I said, and then said I deflected R2TG. That's a good one.

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

Not sure what there was to deflect or answer.

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Just the part you ignored about the Map Chips and the cost.

Look, I don't care who buys what. I'm happy w/ HB and no plans to go back to the other co., already been there and know what it's like when something goes wrong. HB could make it a complete no brainer if they would just fix that one little thing w/ the GPS, JMHO.

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Originally Posted by Release to the Grease...

Just the part you ignored about the Map Chips and the cost.

Look, I don't care who buys what. I'm happy w/ HB and no plans to go back to the other co., already been there and know what it's like when something goes wrong. HB could make it a complete no brainer if they would just fix that one little thing w/ the GPS, JMHO.

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I don't know anything about the "mad chips". I have insight units. I know you don't care who buys what, but make sure to discuss CS when someone asks about the units. I agree, they need to fix the donut, I probably would still have my old units if that was the case. I'm plenty happy with my HDS units, and customer support, and plan to add more items to my network, which is really easy. I don't think I'd accept units/sponsorship in exchange for giving up my ability to speak freely.

I am starting to now care about any of this, boy and girls this donut thing is not rocket science and it dont make no difference if it gets fixed or not, geese let the dough die,

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

I don't know anything about the "mad chips". I have insight units. I know you don't care who buys what, but make sure to discuss CS when someone asks about the units. I agree, they need to fix the donut, I probably would still have my old units if that was the case. I'm plenty happy with my HDS units, and customer support, and plan to add more items to my network, which is really easy. I don't think I'd accept units/sponsorship in exchange for giving up my ability to speak freely.

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mduncan..did you, in fact, switch to Lowrance because of the "Donut"....??

If, yes, then we sure could use your story in an e-mail to Hb...

Contact Support

And if you have already contributed to our "Project HB Donut"..I appologize...it's growing so fast...I can't keep up with who has contacted HB and who hasn't.....

Thanks for your support in "The issue at hand"...." "The Donut"...

Rickie (an almost satisfied HB owner)

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Originally Posted by rnvinc

mduncan..did you, in fact, switch to Lowrance because of the "Donut"....??

If, yes, then we sure could use your story in an e-mail to Hb...

Contact Support

And if you have already contributed to our "Project HB Donut"..I appologize...it's growing so fast...I can't keep up with who has contacted HB and who hasn't.....

Thanks for your support in "The issue at hand"...." "The Donut"...

Rickie (an almost satisfied HB owner)

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I did switch because of the donut. I'll post it over on the donut.