Humminbird New Features for 2011

> Subject: [sideimaging] Humminbird New Features for 2011
> As POSTED TODAY ON SIDEIMAGING SITE
> Â
> There are four new software features in the Side Imaging Units for 2011. They
> are:
>
> * Contour / Terrain Mode
> * SI Navigation
> * Down Imaging Zoom
> * Side Imaging Range Lines
>
> These features are in the 2011 798ci SI HD, 898cSI, 998c SI and 1198c SI models.
> Software upgrades for previous side imaging units (1197,997,987 and 798). The
> 797 and 981 will not get these software upgrades due to limitations in the
> units.
>
>
> Contour Modes:
> With Contour Mode OFF the water column is shown as it has been since we first
> came out with SI. Showing the water column can be valuable as it shows suspended
> fish and great shots of structure near or under the boat; however, the display
> of the water column can be confusing to some
>
> OFF:
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...ICountor1A.jpg[/IMG]
>
> ON:
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...IContour1B.jpg[/IMG]
>
> OFF:
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...IContour2A.jpg[/IMG]
>
> ON:
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x.../Contour2B.jpg[/IMG]
>
> SI Range Lines:
> The SI Range Lines can be turned OFF or ON from a setting under the SONAR tab.
> The Range Lines give the user a quick reference of how far objects are away from
> the boat.
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...RangeLines.jpg[/IMG]
>
> Side Imaging Navigation:
> When you are Navigating (GOTO) to a waypoint NOTE the boat icon on top of the
> side imaging screen will point to the direction of the waypoint. This icon will
> move around to provide the direction to the waypoint.
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...Navigation.jpg[/IMG]
>
> Down Imaging Zoom:
> New Software Feature. Ability to Zoom in on DI
>
> [IMG]http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...ing/DIZoom.jpg[/IMG]
>

There are four new software features in the Side Imaging Units for 2011. They are:

* Contour / Terrain Mode
* SI Navigation
* Down Imaging Zoom
* Side Imaging Range Lines

These features are in the 2011 798ci SI HD, 898cSI, 998c SI and 1198c SI models. Software upgrades for previous side imaging units (1197,997,987 and 798). The 797 and 981 will not get these software upgrades due to limitations in the units.

Contour Modes:
With Contour Mode OFF the water column is shown as it has been since we first came out with SI. Showing the water column can be valuable as it shows suspended fish and great shots of structure near or under the boat; however, the display of the water column can be confusing to some

OFF:

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...ICountor1A.jpg

ON:

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...IContour1B.jpg

OFF:

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...IContour2A.jpg

ON:

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x.../Contour2B.jpg

SI Range Lines:
The SI Range Lines can be turned OFF or ON from a setting under the SONAR tab. The Range Lines give the user a quick reference of how far objects are away from the boat.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...RangeLines.jpg

Side Imaging Navigation:
When you are Navigating (GOTO) to a waypoint NOTE the boat icon on top of the side imaging screen will point to the direction of the waypoint. This icon will move around to provide the direction to the waypoint.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...Navigation.jpg

Down Imaging Zoom:
New Software Feature. Ability to Zoom in on DI

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...ing/DIZoom.jpg

Just a question on the range lines. It appears that the water depth, plus an additional 9ft on either side are added into the first depth line. So the building on the right side of the boat on the 75ft line would actually more like 38ft away from the boat if my math is correct. That's a pretty large margin of error, in my opinion. If I'm reading this wrong, please let me know. For guys the scan on lake like Stockton in 50 -70ft of water the error would be even more. Seems like it would be pretty easy to subtract the depth out of the range calculation, so that it would at least be within 9 ft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

Just a question on the range lines. It appears that the water depth, plus an additional 9ft on either side are added into the first depth line. So the building on the right side of the boat on the 75ft line would actually more like 38ft away from the boat if my math is correct. That's a pretty large margin of error, in my opinion. If I'm reading this wrong, please let me know. For guys the scan on lake like Stockton in 50 -70ft of water the error would be even more. Seems like it would be pretty easy to subtract the depth out of the range calculation, so that it would at least be within 9 ft.

---

WOW, I have to agree with what was said here and am awaiting a professional answer??????

I bet they are filling in the water column with down imaging, so no error. SWAGGING.

I think the water depth is shown as wide as it is deep but with the boat in the middle it would be 14ft. on each side of boat. That would make the bottum line to the 37 mark 23ft. But the 37 line is the same distance from the boat as the 37 line is from the 75ft. line. I think were missing something here on the water column width.

Even if it's just the depth, in 30-50ft of water the measurement is going to be off by the amount of water depth. That renders is pretty useless, unless you want to sit and have to adjust by doing the math in your head to get an idea where things really are.

I am no expert on this heck I dont even own one yet but will. I am just guessing here but, is it because there are two different distances here. Well I dont know how to say what I want. One being the depth is straight down and the other measurements are to the left and right or horziantal arcoss the water. Meaning that the Buildng is 75 feet to the right of the boat, so a person needs to go that distance and then go down with the depth reading. If that is the case you wouldnt really be able to read the graph literally and just make take it that the SI adjusted the image.

Or maybe I am totally wrong and the building is 75 feet from the boat at a direct line from the boat at an angle.

Heck I dont know, I am just reading up on these because I will have one before spring and what to have some Idea on how it works and how to read it.

Thanks
Clint

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilbur

I think the water depth is shown as wide as it is deep but with the boat in the middle it would be 14ft. on each side of boat. That would make the bottum line to the 37 mark 23ft. But the 37 line is the same distance from the boat as the 37 line is from the 75ft. line. I think were missing something here on the water column width.

---

They doing something magic, but I like it.

KY Hydrograpx get rid of the water column on his maps. So, there IS a way to do this without loosing accuracy. Maybe they will tell us how they are doing this. If not, I will get the answer or close answer from Hydrograpx.. Can't stand not knowing...

I looked at the maps a little closer. Looks like the side maps are stretched to fill in the water column. Look at the before and after images. The items are larger than what is seem. Look at the images with and without water column picture and notice the structure size. Image stretch and skew function looks like. Another SWAG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rescue.tech

I am no expert on this heck I dont even own one yet but will. I am just guessing here but, is it because there are two different distances here. Well I dont know how to say what I want. One being the depth is straight down and the other measurements are to the left and right or horziantal arcoss the water. Meaning that the Buildng is 75 feet to the right of the boat, so a person needs to go that distance and then go down with the depth reading. If that is the case you wouldnt really be able to read the graph literally and just make take it that the SI adjusted the image.

Or maybe I am totally wrong and the building is 75 feet from the boat at a direct line from the boat at an angle.

Heck I dont know, I am just reading up on these because I will have one before spring and what to have some Idea on how it works and how to read it.

Thanks
Clint

---

It appears that they simply add the depth to come up with the incorrect measurements. The deeper the water, the further they are from being correct.
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/x...RangeLines.jpg

Building???
That’s a submerged swimming pool guys! Look on the bottom right side of it and you can see the steps in the shallow end of the pool. Know this pool well as it was a part of the Cotton Growers Association’s Club before the lake was backed up.

Those Range Lines are just that: the range (or distance) from the transducer. These are spaced an equal distance from each other just like they are in the 2D sonar.

rescue.tech was close in saying that there are two different distances as there are really three: water depth (directly under the transducer), distance horizontally across the surface of the water, and the one he missed: distance from the transducer (also known as “slant range”). Of these we can only show the first (water depth under the transducer) and last (slant range). The horizontal distance could be calculated but it would only be accurate if the bottom were perfectly flat.
What you stated: “Or maybe I am totally wrong and the building is 75 feet from the boat at a direct line from the boat at an angle” is true. With the Contour mode On or Off, the pool is still a distance of about 75 feet from the transducer.

When you remove the water column area and the Si Range stays the same, than the distance being displayed would be less than with the water column showing and therefore all of the structure would appear to be stretched horizontally. No SWAG just the fact that you are using the same number of pixels to show a smaller distance is all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Humminbird_Greg

Building???
That’s a submerged swimming pool guys! Look on the bottom right side of it and you can see the steps in the shallow end of the pool. Know this pool well as it was a part of the Cotton Growers Association’s Club before the lake was backed up.

Those Range Lines are just that: the range (or distance) from the transducer. These are spaced an equal distance from each other just like they are in the 2D sonar.

rescue.tech was close in saying that there are two different distances as there are really three: water depth (directly under the transducer), distance horizontally across the surface of the water, and the one he missed: distance from the transducer (also known as “slant range”). Of these we can only show the first (water depth under the transducer) and last (slant range). The horizontal distance could be calculated but it would only be accurate if the bottom were perfectly flat.
What you stated: “Or maybe I am totally wrong and the building is 75 feet from the boat at a direct line from the boat at an angle” is true. With the Contour mode On or Off, the pool is still a distance of about 75 feet from the transducer.

When you remove the water column area and the Si Range stays the same, than the distance being displayed would be less than with the water column showing and therefore all of the structure would appear to be stretched horizontally. No SWAG just the fact that you are using the same number of pixels to show a smaller distance is all.

---

Thanks for the clarification Greg. So it's Depth + Horizontal (from directly under the boat on the bottom, out to the object) = A straight line measurement in an arc from the transducer to the object in question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

Thanks for the clarification Greg. So it's Depth + Horizontal (from directly under the boat on the bottom, out to the object) = A straight line measurement in an arc from the transducer to the object in question.

---

Only at extreme distances from the transducer and than only in shallow water. Otherwise the slant range shown to the object may not be water depth + horizontal distance. Maybe a picture will help:

Attachment 53630

Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Humminbird_Greg

Building???
That’s a submerged swimming pool guys! Look on the bottom right side of it and you can see the steps in the shallow end of the pool. Know this pool well as it was a part of the Cotton Growers Association’s Club before the lake was backed up.

Those Range Lines are just that: the range (or distance) from the transducer. These are spaced an equal distance from each other just like they are in the 2D sonar.

rescue.tech was close in saying that there are two different distances as there are really three: water depth (directly under the transducer), distance horizontally across the surface of the water, and the one he missed: distance from the transducer (also known as “slant range”). Of these we can only show the first (water depth under the transducer) and last (slant range). The horizontal distance could be calculated but it would only be accurate if the bottom were perfectly flat.
What you stated: “Or maybe I am totally wrong and the building is 75 feet from the boat at a direct line from the boat at an angle” is true. With the Contour mode On or Off, the pool is still a distance of about 75 feet from the transducer.

When you remove the water column area and the Si Range stays the same, than the distance being displayed would be less than with the water column showing and therefore all of the structure would appear to be stretched horizontally. No SWAG just the fact that you are using the same number of pixels to show a smaller distance is all.

---

Ok. I understand. The swag was mine at the skew of the image. So, if it is skewed somewhat, how much off will the waypoint be if you mark an object?

Hey Greg, I still like my idea of filling the water column with Down images. Be nice to have all on one screen instead of split screens. Put it on my Christmas list.

Also, I thought there was very little arc in the si beam since it is such narrow a beam, like the butterfly wing pattern.

It is what it is. If we say the pool is at 75ft it is 75ft away from the boat. You have to remember that the side imaging beams over lap under the boat. The gps Coordinates will be right on. You will be able to set Contour Mode to the on position and be able to mark a gps coordinates and be right on the spot.

I stated something about the down image part, but no response.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cane Pole

I stated something about the down image part, but no response.

---

You got ignored again CP. You should be use to it by now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joby @ Humminbird

It is what it is. If we say the pool is at 75ft it is 75ft away from the boat. You have to remember that the side imaging beams over lap under the boat. The gps Coordinates will be right on. You will be able to set Contour Mode to the on position and be able to mark a gps coordinates and be right on the spot.

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So if you run your cursor over the pool it will take you right to it.

I agree with you completely CP. Not having any view of the water column might be useful for when you are just looking for submerged "stuff", but if you are really fishing and looking for baitfish etc, this would never be used. The unit that could probably benefit the most from this would be the 700's. To bad for 797 and 981 owners. You have just become obsolete. But I'm pretty sure they'll continue to service them if they break down.

Even with the explanation of the contour lines, I don't find it to be that useful of a feature, as you basically have to hold your arm at a 45 degree angle and say it's 38ft down that way. It still seems to me that if you took the measurement from the contour mode, you'd get a much better measurement and then you could actually say, that hump or stump or whatever is x ft away from the boat on the bottom, and I'm in x feet of water, so if I cast x amount of feet and let it drop, my bait will go over the stump. As it is now, it still leaves a lot to the imagination, and being able to apply it into fishing would seem a little difficult to me.

The new features may be handy for some, but I still like the old school scanning. But guys would give up all the new features for a donut fix. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joby @ Humminbird

It is what it is. If we say the pool is at 75ft it is 75ft away from the boat. You have to remember that the side imaging beams over lap under the boat. The gps Coordinates will be right on. You will be able to set Contour Mode to the on position and be able to mark a gps coordinates and be right on the spot.

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What this mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilbur

You got ignored again CP. You should be use to it by now.

---

Doubt we get an honest answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cane Pole

Doubt we get an honest answer.

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No doubt they are doing some distance correction. Maybe like ground radar.

The more I look at the pictures he posted, the less logical it seems. You want to know how far away from the boat the structure on the bottom of the lake is, and I don't believe that's what you're getting. But I've been wrong several times.

It is what it is as an answer usually means shut up and stop asking questions, or I really don't have a real answer.

I'm sure glad that Lowrance and HB both have free upgrades and updates though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

I'm sure glad that Lowrance and HB both have free upgrades and updates though.

---

I agree to a point. I'll make my point in a second.

First, though, it wasn't but just the other day that I was looking at the DI screen and saw something of interest, smashed the zoom button and ..... nothin. Hit it again....nothin. Oh yea, it don't zoom on DI. Well, now I can Zoom on the DI screen. I'll take it.
Doubt that I'll use the contour off function.

But, and I don't know how they do it, but I have marked stuff from the SI screen that was 70-80 feet to the side, put part of the screen on map and navigated to my new waypoint and when it said I was there, the structure showed up under my DI. I've marked suspended baitballs and fish and ran right on top of them this way.
So, when the guy says it is what it is. Maybe that ain't him sayin shut up but that it is what it is.

Now to my point. I don't consider these to be "free" upgrades. I bought these units knowing full aware that as they improved the units, those improvements would be backward compatiable. One of the selling points was the ability to do firmware updates. My AVR and DVD player offer the same thing. If they didn't have the capability, I'd have been reluctant to buy the units that I have. They are too expensive to be obsolete in a year or two.

Now with that said, the ethernet connection is the cat's meow this year. The other things are nice, but if ethernet does what is capable, I'll remain a happy customer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stymie

I agree to a point. I'll make my point in a second.

First, though, it wasn't but just the other day that I was looking at the DI screen and saw something of interest, smashed the zoom button and ..... nothin. Hit it again....nothin. Oh yea, it don't zoom on DI. Well, now I can Zoom on the DI screen. I'll take it.
Doubt that I'll use the contour off function.

But, and I don't know how they do it, but I have marked stuff from the SI screen that was 70-80 feet to the side, put part of the screen on map and navigated to my new waypoint and when it said I was there, the structure showed up under my DI. I've marked suspended baitballs and fish and ran right on top of them this way.
So, when the guy says it is what it is. Maybe that ain't him sayin shut up but that it is what it is.

Now to my point. I don't consider these to be "free" upgrades. I bought these units knowing full aware that as they improved the units, those improvements would be backward compatiable. One of the selling points was the ability to do firmware updates. My AVR and DVD player offer the same thing. If they didn't have the capability, I'd have been reluctant to buy the units that I have. They are too expensive to be obsolete in a year or two.

Now with that said, the ethernet connection is the cat's meow this year. The other things are nice, but if ethernet does what is capable, I'll remain a happy customer.

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I could take or leave the zoom. If I can see it, I can probably see what's around it and use my bait to zoom in. Marking a waypoint and viewing is completely different then looking at the contour lines. Both HB and Low can mark waypoints while doing a side or down scan and both are accurate. I've owned both, so I can say that.

As far as being backwards compatible, It's safe to assume that you don't own a 981, or 797 because they are now no longer backwards compatible. Bought one a year or 2 ago also. (I don't remember seeing a disclaimer or any warning that these units would not handle the future Free upgrades/updates. They are now obsolete, as new features apparently require more CPU or RAM then those units contain. I had a 797, and sold it with my boat so It's no longer an issue, but I'm always on the prowl to buy something new.

I agree, it's great that HB finally got with the times and added Ethernet. It's not exactly a new idea.

I have to ask, does anyone think that Low charges for updates or software upgrades? The answer is both companies offer these free. It's really a null point.

I have only dealt with 1 piece of equipment that has been truly backwards compatible, ever. Equallogic Sans, ISCSI storage devices, started production in 2001, and if you bought one in 01, and need another in 11, they can work together, and all software is written to be backwards compatible. When you are talking about Computer equipment, this is amazing. Think about the computer you had in 2001, compared to what is out today.

I'm not gonna step in and take sides on the Contour On/Off...good or bad....because I just haven't used it to know if it will be beneficial to my style of fishing.....

But.....this item has been on the HB wish list for some time....mostly from wreck hunters, search and rescue guys, and deeper saltwater fishermen.....

It was their wish to be able to not show the water column so as to allow more bottom showing on the screen and less of the screen taken up by water column....

Most of those guys are not interested in any bait, fish, or other returns that happen to be in the water column...their interest is totally whats on the bottom....

This is HB merely trying to accomodate some customer wishes from the wish list ideas....

I know we crappie fishermen have our own wishes also...but we are not the only type of users for this SI technology....

Our (crappie fishermen) not needing the Contour feature is no different than wreck hunters not needing the "donut" fixed...

I know it sounds like I'm defending HB...and I probably am...IMO HB will be the best all around SI unit for my style of fishin....AFTER they fix the "Donut".......

And they WILL fix the "Donut".....we just have to keep after them until they do....

I'm off to pick up breakfast rnvinc, you guessed it,donuts.

I like it. I have noticed that stuff marked farther from the boat has a more accurate wpt than stuff marked close to boat. This is why I asked about the skew in the image without the water column. Just curious.

Sorry guys but I post on this board on the side and have an actual job that I have to do stuff at and so cannot always show up and comment quickly. At home this morning waiting for everyone else to get ready to go celebrate my Wife’s birthday, so I have a few minutes.

When you mark a waypoint you are saving a set of coordinates. These do not change with or without the Contour mode on. When marking a waypoint in Si there will be some differences due to the slant range versus the actual horizontal range. How much? It would depend on the distance of the object marked, the current water depth, the actual water depth of the object and I think the geography of the bottom itself. More things than the unit would know or could guess at. Most have found that waypoints marked in this way are close enough to find and fish the structure.

There is a split screen with Si and Di sonar already CP. I’m not sure how we would fill the water column area with the Di image unless you are meaning to essentially paste the Di image in the area (middle) of the Si image. I think that would make it very hard for most folks to understand what it is they are seeing then.

The arc is there is the Si beams. Remember that when looking from overhead; they are wide left-to-right but very narrow front-to-rear. There will still be an arc as shown in the drawing this arc represents the same slant range distance from the transducer.

mduncan62 what you say is correct:
“Even with the explanation of the contour lines, I don't find it to be that useful of a feature, as you basically have to hold your arm at a 45 degree angle and say it's 38ft down that way. It still seems to me that if you took the measurement from the contour mode, you'd get a much better measurement and then you could actually say, that hump or stump or whatever is x ft away from the boat on the bottom, and I'm in x feet of water, so if I cast x amount of feet and let it drop, my bait will go over the stump. As it is now, it still leaves a lot to the imagination, and being able to apply it into fishing would seem a little difficult to me.”
If the bottom of ever lake and river were perfectly flat (and therefore the water depth would be the same) than the Si Range lines while using the Contour mode would show the horizontal or “casting” distance to the object. However, since the water depth changes, the value of each of the Si Range lines changes as well and so there are no numbers shown when using the Contour mode. So you would still have to take an educated guess as to how far you would have to cast to fish that object.

Man, wish I would have gotten on here earlier. We have a place here in Eufaula that has some of the best donuts and sausage dogs… Mmmmm, those would have better than the bowl of cereal I ate!

Thanks for the follow up Greg. You are a valuable asset for this board. I had the little hostess donuts, in honor of the HB donut. :)

So, the markings further from the boat are more accurate then? Thanks Greg.

Like Greg stated if the bottom was flat you can formulate how far to cast and have the range easily. Problem is the bottom isn't flat in contour mode or straight up SI mode. I cast across points all the time, Retrieve uphill, downhill, fish ledges, humps etc etc so I don't think it's feasible to get a 100% accurate number to use the C2 = A2 + B2 formula. So they did the next best thing distance from the ducer. It's information you don't already have so any extra info is a plus. If you can see a shadow from a fish you can then get a good idea of how deep the fish is. I deep water spoon fish like this all the time. Once you get things straight in your head you can get an idea of how far to cast based on the range of your beams. It's gonna be good to have some more info (the contour lines) on the screen to try to be even more accurate.

Thanks TMike, Greg, Joby. Some people you just can't please no matter what. Reading this and other HB threads kind of reminds me when I decided to buy a homeless guy a hamburger and a bottle of water. Instead of being grateful that someone helped him for FREE, the homeless guy says to me, "where's the fries and apple pie?"
I wonder how many free enhancement downloads has Lowrance offered? How many of their employees monitor this board and others FOR FREE???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by icemanrrc

Thanks TMike, Greg, Joby. Some people you just can't please no matter what. Reading this and other HB threads kind of reminds me when I decided to buy a homeless guy a hamburger and a bottle of water. Instead of being grateful that someone helped him for FREE, the homeless guy says to me, "where's the fries and apple pie?"
I wonder how many free enhancement downloads has Lowrance offered? How many of their employees monitor this board and others FOR FREE???

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Here-Here!!! I totally agree and am thankful for all the HB support!

If you are reference me, I am asking intelligent questions instead of making snotty remarks about others comments. If not fine, if so well go pee up a rope.

Iceman and nymph, I'm happy with both units. Both units have free updates and upgrades. I guess asking legitimate questions, and wanting to actually understand what formula is being used to create the contour lines means something negative? Some, not all like to know more then look at the pictures on the screen. It's the useless ramblings of "how many free enhancements has Lowrance offered" that creates animosity. For the record, you can go to the Lowrance site and download the updates and enhancements for your Lowrance unit, same as HB.

Greg and Joby do a great job, it might be part of their job also, but they are appreciated. Mike and Doug, I have no idea, but both are sponsored by HB. You may have seen a guy with the name "Jason Gilstrap LOWRANCE" who represents Lowrance on C.Com. If you're going to trash talk, do a little homework first. If you own a unit from either brand and you aren't interested in knowing how it works, and what the features do and how they do them, I feel sorry for you.

Nice homeless joke, classy. Like CP said, well just read what he said.