lowrance hds 10 or humminbird 1198

I posted this earlier under the title of "new sonar" and didn't get the response that I had expected. So I'll try this title to see if anyone has any more advice. Wilbur, I do appreciate the ideas that you presented. Thanks.

(Original post) I am trying to choose between a Lowrance HDS 10 and a Humminbird 1198. Which one would be superior in regards to performance, reliability, and customer service?

It appears that the side imaging and down imaging come with the Humminbird and the Lowrance would require a separate $600 StructureScan system to accomplish the same thing. Am I correct?

Reason most people are hesitant is these kind of questions normally start a usses versus themens kinda thing. They can normally get kinda heated. But you are correct that you need the extra $600 item if you go the Lowrance system.

Read all you can about each companies customer service record and make up your own mind.

I could tell you which one I prefer but only in a PM. Another great person to ask is Tom user ID Canepole. He is an electronics whiz and will give you the straightest scoop on them.

Sure would be nice if-in we could keep this post going --if only if folks would post their "likes" only & why or why's.. With a no bash policy towards other unit/brand. To hays47I would appreciate u pm'ing me your choice & promise to delete after reading-thanks(no I am not taking survey but hope to be in market depending on Docs tests in a month or so to confirm that I did beat the prostrate C..... stuff.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaxsprat

Sure would be nice if-in we could keep this post going --if only if folks would post their "likes" only & why or why's.. With a no bash policy towards other unit/brand. To hays47I would appreciate u pm'ing me your choice & promise to delete after reading-thanks(no I am not taking survey but hope to be in market depending on Docs tests in a month or so to confirm that I did beat the prostrate C..... stuff.)

---

Jack, I had the prostrate C....stuff, very advanced stage a couple years ago, doc took it out & now I'm testing 0 for PSA. Good luck.

x2 (jack)

Both will do the job. The performance is about equal, with the edge to Lowrance on the down imaging. The HB is easier to use (out of box). You have to tweak the HB more than the Lowrance out of box. Lowrance has lots more features.

As a stand along unit, HB is easier to install as it requires less components to configure for 2d, down and side imaging. Lowrance is more flexible with its capability of Ethernet, NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000 interfacing capabilities.

I like both units and gripe openly about stuff I don't like about either. I am right and they are wrong.

I don't have issues with either HB of Lowrance customer service. They both been good to me.

Any unit will only perform as good as it's operator. Performance is in the eyes of the beholder ( the owner).

I agree with canepole,it comes down to what you like.Both brands are great units.I just purchased a new HDS unit.For some reason Lowrance is getting alot of bad publicity about there customer service from what I have heard and thats only hearsay.I personally have not experienced that as of yet.Good luck,I think you will be happy either way.PM me and I can tell you where to get some good price's on either one.

I've had my 1197 for nearly a year now....

I have found only 2 things I don't like about this unit (and both can be fixed by HB if they will just listen to us crappie fishermen)

The down imaging is lacking IMO because it is a computer rendition of the SI images and not from it's own Xducer crystals...

The "Donut" sucks bigtime.....:mad::mad::mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rnvinc

I've had my 1197 for nearly a year now....

I have found only 2 things I don't like about this unit (and both can be fixed by HB if they will just listen to us crappie fishermen)

The down imaging is lacking IMO because it is a computer rendition of the SI images and not from it's own Xducer crystals...

The "Donut" sucks bigtime.....:mad::mad::mad:

---

I would of really though both of these would of been corrected on the 1198....l

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaxsprat

I would of really though both of these would of been corrected on the 1198....l

---

IMO the reason that HB has not addressed the "donut" issue is because it only really affects us "Slow Technique Fishermen"
...those fishermen that fish slower than 0.5mph...mainly crappie fishermen...

I mean, let's face it, bass fishermen never fish below 0.5mph so the "Donut" never affects them..

And it's also obvious that HB caters to the bass fishermen because that's HB's biggest customer base....

So until us "Slow Technique Fishermen" get enough people to scream loud enough for HB to hear us...SADLY.. the "Donut" will not be addressed....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rnvinc

So until us "Slow Technique Fishermen" get enough people to scream loud enough for HB to hear us...SADLY.. the "Donut" will not be addressed....

---

Rnvinc, Can you be more specific in the needs of the crappie fisherman? The donut represents no movement ie stationary. If you have your unit rigged and updated to accept the 4X per second refresh rate as soon as you touch the pedal (almost instantly) the arrow shows direction again. This only happens if you are rigged up to receive the faster refresh rate AND have the latest download (I believe 4.7 or greater??)

BBC Boards: GPS Set-up Schematics 4X Faster Refresh Rate

Granted I am a lowely bass fisherman but if you can help me understand I can and will pass this along to the powers that be.

If I or Doug and I can speak for Greg here can help anyone with questions about Humminbird let us know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Mike

Rnvinc, Can you be more specific in the needs of the crappie fisherman? The donut represents no movement ie stationary. If you have your unit rigged and updated to accept the 4X per second refresh rate as soon as you touch the pedal (almost instantly) the arrow shows direction again. This only happens if you are rigged up to receive the faster refresh rate AND have the latest download (I believe 4.7 or greater??)

BBC Boards: GPS Set-up Schematics 4X Faster Refresh Rate
Granted I am a lowely bass fisherman but if you can help me understand I can and will pass this along to the powers that be.

If I or Doug and I can speak for Greg here can help anyone with questions about Humminbird let us know.

---

LOL. This subject has been beat up so much. TMike, Does the donut represent "no" movement, or do you have to be moving at a specific speed for it to pick up? The actual speed has been mentioned on here several times, I just can't recall what it was. I'm sure Canepole will be able to shed light on it again.

The problem is, and has been since the donut was invented, that if you are trying to fish a specific piece of underwater structure, or stay directly on a waypoint, you can easily drift away at a low rate of speed, and the donut does not leave. You then have to troll around a bit to lose the donut, and find your spot again.

Not to start a bash between Bass and Crappie Guys but many Bass guys fish and sit on specific pieces of structure like ledge fishing or fishing brush piles. I don't have the issues when I use this technique and especially since the 4x Refresh Rate was given to us it makes it very easy to line up and cast to the specific areas. Kevin Van Dam won the Kentucky Lake BASS Elite doing this exact same method.

Now on to the good stuff. Humminbird has Ethernet now. The 1198c can be ethernet networked with other ethernet ready units so you have a choice of InterLink or Ethernet.

The 1198c is waterproof and you can submerse the unit in the lake and it floats and doesn't leak. I've proven it. The 1198c features a new LED Backlight to create more backlighting and a wider array of backlighting for owners. SUper fast response between screen views...unit will refresh almost the instant you hit the VIEW button or one of the 3 Favorite Preset Buttons. Plus world class customer service, look at the response from owners that needed service in this poll: BBC Boards: Humminbird Customer Service 2 weeks max to ship to Eufuala, Alabama and return shipping plus work on it and most have seen less than a week turn around. That means the unit is in shipping more than it's at the factory being serviced. So if you do have to use custoemr service it's super fast turn around...this hasn't changed with Humminbird it's been the norm. American Made Product by and American Owned Company...your investment dollars help pay wages for Americans and keep American jobs and the profits stay in America and invested back into America. Humminbird is owned by Johnson Outdoors same company that owns MinnKota and GeoNav and many others and they build them at Eufuala, Alabama. Nice to still have something we can call made in America. Another thing is Humminbird supports units for many years and keeps consistency in cables and connections. I know they are still servicing and maintaining units prior to 2003 when I made the switch for example last year they gave the Down Imaging option Free of charge to every Side Imaging Owner yep even those that invested back in 2004. BEsides the support look at the innovation and added features liek SI Enhance that takes Side Imaging to a whole new level for finding fish. Simple easy to use menu system that is logical and one of the big things is listening to the users to bring new features and innovation. Many of the free software update ideas are because of the users posting on message boards, talks with customer service and more. That's why I like Humminbird.

But the best thing is to get on the water and try both and see which is easier for you to use and understand and what works best for you. It's your money that your investing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doug Vahrenberg

. American Made Product by and American Owned Company...your investment dollars help pay wages for Americans and keep American jobs and the profits stay in America and invested back into America. Humminbird is owned by Johnson Outdoors same company that owns MinnKota and GeoNav and many others and they build them at Eufuala, Alabama. Nice to still have something we can call made in America. But the best thing is to get on the water and try both and see which is easier for you to use and understand and what works best for you. It's your money that your investing.

---

I realize that you are sponsored by HB, and thanks for your comments. Regarding your "made in America" claims. I was hoping for some clarification on that point, as to not mislead people that actually would like to buy American made products. Are you meaning to say assembled in America? or Packaged in America? I'm sure that you aren't trying to say that this product is actually completely American made in whole, because that is impossible.

Also, There doesn't appear to be a single reference to this "fact" on HB's website. Surely if it's that big if a deal (which it would be) they would mention it at least once.

According to the 2009 financial statement, they also have Marine Electronics Manufacturing in Viareggio, Italy, and Burlington, Ontario Canada. I'm not saying this to start some battle or say anything bad about HB, I've owned HB, but rather to check the claims you make. I would agree that most of the profits probably stay in the U.S.A. though.

Link to the financial statement can be found here, and I am referencing page 9. You can check what I say too. http://www.johnsonoutdoors.com/pdf/J...-loresw10k.pdf

Sorry, but I don't know what the "donut" effect is and I'm close to purchasing a new HB. Could someone enlighten me?

When your running up on a waypoint, as you get close if you slow down to .4 mph the boat icon that you are steering by turns into a circle, so called donut.

If you get your spot marked just throw a marker out. I too am still undecided as to which unit I am going to buy but if I go with HB I'll just leave my markers in the boat. Besides, I like have that visual reference on the water itself opposed to staying lined up on a screen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

I realize that you are sponsored by HB, and thanks for your comments. Regarding your "made in America" claims. I was hoping for some clarification on that point, as to not mislead people that actually would like to buy American made products. Are you meaning to say assembled in America? or Packaged in America? I'm sure that you aren't trying to say that this product is actually completely American made in whole, because that is impossible.

Also, There doesn't appear to be a single reference to this "fact" on HB's website. Surely if it's that big if a deal (which it would be) they would mention it at least once.

According to the 2009 financial statement, they also have Marine Electronics Manufacturing in Viareggio, Italy, and Burlington, Ontario Canada. I'm not saying this to start some battle or say anything bad about HB, I've owned HB, but rather to check the claims you make. I would agree that most of the profits probably stay in the U.S.A. though.

Link to the financial statement can be found here, and I am referencing page 9. You can check what I say too. http://www.johnsonoutdoors.com/pdf/J...-loresw10k.pdf

---

It is assembled in Eufaula

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stymie

It is assembled in Eufaula

---

Wonder if they have auto insertion tooling. I'd like to see it in action. But, if I showed up, HB would turn the welcome mat over. ha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Ridge Brewer

If you get your spot marked just throw a marker out. I too am still undecided as to which unit I am going to buy but if I go with HB I'll just leave my markers in the boat. Besides, I like have that visual reference on the water itself opposed to staying lined up on a screen.

---

My wife fishes for markers. Well, she does a good job at catching 'em.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Ridge Brewer

If you get your spot marked just throw a marker out. I too am still undecided as to which unit I am going to buy but if I go with HB I'll just leave my markers in the boat. Besides, I like have that visual reference on the water itself opposed to staying lined up on a screen.

---

I do the marker thing. I also have the unit at the trolling motor set up to always have North Up so the map isn't flipping around when the donut comes up. I think I keep the console at Course/Heading Up as I'm usually moving when I'm looking at that screen and it makes it easier for me to circle around and go back to a spot of interest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stymie

It is assembled in Eufaula

---

And also Canada, and Italy apparently. Just seems like if HB's pro staff are touting "made in America" the company should too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cane Pole

Wonder if they have auto insertion tooling. I'd like to see it in action. But, if I showed up, HB would turn the welcome mat over. ha

---

You may be surprised Cane Pole. I gave a Customer a tour of our plant the just last week while his unit was being serviced (this is not always possible so don’t everyone jump in their cars and head this way!). Besides, except for that nice self portrait on all your posts we wouldn't know what you looked like! :eek: :D


Mduncan62,
The Marine Electronics Group (MEG for short) division of Johnson Outdoors, Inc. is more than just the Humminbird brand (our actual company name is Johnson Outdoors Marine Electronics, Inc. with Humminbird being only a name of one of the brands we make), this division also contains GeoNav which is based in Viareggio, Italy, Minn Kota which is based in Mankato, MN., and there is also Silva compasses, Eureka Tents, several Kayak and small watercraft companies, ScubaPro and a few other companies that I don’t know where they are based. So yes I would expect that statement showed other locations even some outside the United States of America.

I don’t know what the proper term would be but I would say that we are a manufacturer or an assembler as we do not make the parts and components that we use from raw materials. I believe the majority of the electronic components we use are made outside of the U.S.A. as there are no companies within that make them.



The “donut” is well known by Joby and I and don’t think that we have forgotten about it. I don’t know if Engineering is going to do something about it or if they are when it will happen. If and when it does you rest assured that we will let everyone here know.

Some pics from the Eufaula Alabama office in action. I'd say they are more made in USA than some of the others...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...handsolder.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6.../zgeneral2.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...m/zgeneral.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/zcmm.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/zAOI.jpg

And From the Outside looking at 678 Humminbird Lane in Eufaula, Alabama:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6.../zDSC_0011.jpg

And here's the hard working folks that make it all happen: I think thats greg in the very back standing on a stool :p:p:p:p:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...BEmployees.jpg

Thanks for sharing T Mike. I know what this stuff does. Been a while though.

My mother is in that picture, and she is not happy that you posted it on the internet without her approval Tmike. She is going to file a complaint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

My mother is in that picture, and she is not happy that you posted it on the internet without her approval Tmike. She is going to file a complaint.

---

LOL @ Mduncan62!
I’m just glad I was actually standing on the back row or my ugly mug would have broken the camera! :eek: We took a new picture this last year down by the lake – I hid in that one too! :D

Cane Pole, SMT placement equipment has been going through some quite a few changes in the last years. I think that you would be quite impressed with the capabilities of the equipment we have now. Those are considered old pictures now. We even got rid of the projection system you see in a few of the pictures and have flat panel screens! :cool:


Greg Walters at Humminbird

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Humminbird_Greg

LOL @ Mduncan62!
I’m just glad I was actually standing on the back row or my ugly mug would have broken the camera! :eek: We took a new picture this last year down by the lake – I hid in that one too! :D

Cane Pole, SMT placement equipment has been going through some quite a few changes in the last years. I think that you would be quite impressed with the capabilities of the equipment we have now. Those are considered old pictures now. We even got rid of the projection system you see in a few of the pictures and have flat panel screens! :cool:


Greg Walters at Humminbird

---

Is that you in the boat holding the fishing rod.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

My mother is in that picture, and she is not happy that you posted it on the internet without her approval Tmike. She is going to file a complaint.

---

Is she wearing a red coat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stymie

Is she wearing a red coat?

---

She sure is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gansett

Sorry, but I don't know what the "donut" effect is and I'm close to purchasing a new HB. Could someone enlighten me?

---

As mentioned in other places in this thread..the "Donut" is the icon that shows on the screen below 0.5mph..in other words ..there is a directional pointing boat icon showing your boat's direction as long as you are traveling above 0.5mph....

As soon as your speed decreases below 0.5mph the directional boat icon turns into a circle indicating that the unit thinks the unit is stationary...(even tho you may still be moving..albeit at less than 0.5mph)...

This really becomes a problem for (what I termed "us slow technique crappie fishermen)....I spider rig at 0.2 to 0.4mph..therefore my unit thinks I'm not moving..and I could have actually spider rigged 10-20 ft before mu unit realizes I'm not where "it" thinks I am..then the unit "jumps" the "donut" icon across the screen to my new "realized" location.....

Some say thro a marker buoy out...that's fine if I want to stay on and fish a certain brushpile or structure...but when my normal "moving around" spider rigging fishing speed is 0.2 - 0.4mph then the "Donut" is a major PITA.....

Now, on the bright side....I would definately recommend the HB product ( I would buy it again over the other guy) ....especially when I know that HB can and will eventually fix this "Donut" issue (with a software update) when enough complaints about the "Donut" are raised....

Other GPS companies have technology avoiding this "Donut" issue...just ask any Garmin user..

So the infamous HB "Donut" can be fixed...we just have to keep complaining until HB hears us....

Greg and Joby...I know that you 2 hear us...but the "powers that be" (as you call them)...are just not hearing us "slow technique fishermen"....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

I realize that you are sponsored by HB, and thanks for your comments. Regarding your "made in America" claims. I was hoping for some clarification on that point, as to not mislead people that actually would like to buy American made products. Are you meaning to say assembled in America? or Packaged in America? I'm sure that you aren't trying to say that this product is actually completely American made in whole, because that is impossible.

---

Humminbird and Sister Company GeoNav Units are Manufactured and Assembled in Eufuala, Alabama...Humminbird assembles the motherboards from electronic components sourced from around the world but they build them in-house from the components...Just like GM, Ford, Chrysler build cares in the US they are built from components source from manufacturers that produce components around the world. This allows you to get world wide technologies but assembled by American Workers. Here's some images from the Eufuala, Alabama Plant.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6.../zDSC_0011.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/zAOI.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/zcmm.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...m/zgeneral.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6.../zgeneral2.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...handsolder.jpg

And the American People behind the Scenes...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...BEmployees.jpg

Oops..Sorry the double post of images...I was reading thread and replied before I finished...Been out of town last few days...Did get to chat with Humminbird Engineer while in Atlanta Georgia...Yep they have a Humminbird Office in Atlanta too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doug Vahrenberg

Humminbird and Sister Company GeoNav Units are Manufactured and Assembled in Eufuala, Alabama...Humminbird assembles the motherboards from electronic components sourced from around the world but they build them in-house from the components...Just like GM, Ford, Chrysler build cares in the US they are built from components source from manufacturers that produce components around the world. This allows you to get world wide technologies but assembled by American Workers. Here's some images from the Eufuala, Alabama Plant.

---

Thanks for reposting the pics that TMike posted already on this thread!!!!
Any more information on the Donut? I think that's probably more important to crappie fishermen then looking at these pics again. Also, you might mention to your contact at HB that there is no mention of made in America on the website, I'd be interested to know why there isn't any mention?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

Thanks for reposting the pics that TMike posted already on this thread!!!!
Any more information on the Donut? I think that's probably more important to crappie fishermen then looking at these pics again. Also, you might mention to your contact at HB that there is no mention of made in America on the website, I'd be interested to know why there isn't any mention?

---

I am not alone in the "Donut" hater's group...YAY!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rnvinc

I am not alone in the "Donut" hater's group...YAY!!

---

Turned me away from bird. That and the fact that the Down scan from Low. is better quality. I'm all for the bass guys pimping their products over here, but it's company line stuff and pictures, but the donut gets avoided at all costs. If a company wanted to give me free products like they get, I'd probably get on forums and pimp them and show pictures of the factory too. The guys that actually work at HB have had no luck getting anything done, so I'm guessing that the Crappie market isn't enough to matter.

Doug's favorite comment is that the DI update was free. I've never paid for an update for either company, so that doesn't hold water.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mduncan62

Turned me away from bird. That and the fact that the Down scan from Low. is better quality. I'm all for the bass guys pimping their products over here, but it's company line stuff and pictures, but the donut gets avoided at all costs. If a company wanted to give me free products like they get, I'd probably get on forums and pimp them and show pictures of the factory too. The guys that actually work at HB have had no luck getting anything done, so I'm guessing that the Crappie market isn't enough to matter.

Doug's favorite comment is that the DI update was free. I've never paid for an update for either company, so that doesn't hold water.

---

My point exactly...

Sure didn't HB very long to fix the "Shallow Water Depth reading" problem...why..??

Because the bass guys were throwing a fit.....