I wanted to run my livewell pump off the trollin bat. to keep from draining the start bat.
I took the hot wire off the switch and ran a new one to the TM bat. Then I connected the NEG from start bat to NEG of TM batt. To take care of the ground.
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I wanted to run my livewell pump off the trollin bat. to keep from draining the start bat.
I took the hot wire off the switch and ran a new one to the TM bat. Then I connected the NEG from start bat to NEG of TM batt. To take care of the ground.
that will not work. you will have to run the neg. wire first
It does work. Works fineQuote:
Originally Posted by beagle man
Did you fuse the wire? Locked rotor draws a lot of current. Fire hazard.
Yes 5amp 16 ga. wire. What about the Grounds connected. Should only draw from TM bat. right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
yep. You fine.
thanks cpQuote:
Originally Posted by cane pole
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur
I use a car starter cable to tie my battery grounds together. Big is good.
Be careful not to do this if you have a TM with a built-in transducer. Some of them don't like the batteries sharing a ground.
I was told that is the way to get rid of interference. I think there is schematic of it somewhere on here that CP drew upQuote:
Originally Posted by CatFan
I was gonna use 6ga.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
I know wilbur, I thought you was joking, so I did, opps, sorry,
That should be fine. If you have sonar interference, well you will have to home run the ground from the pump and remove the jumper. Grounding sucks.
The Minn Kota us2 has a sneak path to ground if the shield (knurled connector) is grounded. This connector shield is isolated with the Humminbird, but still creates some problems. Again, a lot of the noise is inconsistency in the manufacturers equipment, such as the boat wiring layout itself.
By the way, we should not be calling battery negative as ground as boats do not have a ground. Referring to battery negative as ground with respect to boats is improper nomenclature.
Confusing? ha........I am guilty of this wrong nomenclature.
FYI
Aluminum boats are grounded from the starting battery, but DON"T use it as such.
Yes it does in most systems, but with the US2 you can create a short by doing it. Here's a quote from a memo MK sent to their ASCs:Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur
"US2 motors have internal bonding/grounding wire
connections to eliminate depth finder interference.
This internal bonding/grounding wire links the
trolling motor negative to depth finder battery
negative (starting battery negative). The
combination of US2 motor internal bonding and the
external ground connections could cause a shorted
condition. This could result in damage to the motor
that would not be covered by Minn Kota’s warranty.
To address these issues caused by improper boat
wiring, we in the process of adding an internal fuse
to the motor bonding/grounding wire."
For the full text, read the post by jonestrollingmotor at BBC Boards: John Jones - Minn Kota US2 Short Problem It's a ways down the thread.
Note that the fuse doesn't allow the system to run with a common ground, rather it protects the transducer from damage.
This is what I measured. Shield (knurled connector) is connected to the TM housing. The path would be thru this sheild if connected via a head unit. The shield is not continuous thru the HB connector. I don't know about the Lowrance. It is an issue. It is a single ended shield, but I believe it has no reference except when the motor is pulsed on (via n channel fet thru control circuit). This is what I am reading with my meter. Haven't scoped it out yet. too cold.
Glad you mentioned this.
Again, my Sonars have their own batteries.
PS I am theorizing from previous observations. Nothing is factual.
I looked at the MK wire drawing. The brown wire going into the TM head is connected to some ground reference in the control module and is probably fused in the motor housing. Sneaky.
Most ground wires are not fused, except maybe Russian stuff and CYA fixes.
So, do not tie the start batteries together as I previously stated until I look into this. This could be a potential problem with Lowrance . I will look at this closely when ever it warms some. Sorry folks. I try hard.
You try too hard CP you better grab a cold one and chill out for a while. In the meantime i will run the neg from the pump directly to the TM battery. Notice I said NEG instead of ground. It takes me a while
Nothing shakes me Wilbur. I just wouldn't want anyone to damage their unit. However, I can't see the reason for this to happen. I will take mine apart and LOOK. I see no way tieing battery negatives together could hurt anything yet, based on what I metered.
Funny that this problem has not come up here for discussion before. If it did, I missed it.
I'm not sure I understand, "Aluminum boats are grounded from the starting battery". No aluminum boat I've had, and that's quite a few has had the starting battery grounded to the hull. Now outboard motors usually have a ground wire from the powerhead to the mounting bracket. I believe this is to insure the bracket has a proper ground for the trim/tilt motor. So quite possibly the hull could be picking up this ground if there was a bare metal connection between the the hull and motor. I haven't seen any of my boats that the manufacturer has provided a bare metal connection between the motor and hull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnacle Bill
Here is a link to the V2 wiring. I don't see the problem. If one exists, Minn Kota caused it.
Scroll to bottom of page of the link.
http://www.northlandmarine.com/image...V2%2070-09.pdf
I agree. How could they not have anticipated it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane Pole
The wiring doesn't show anything to tell what is happening other than the fact that the fuse is in the brown wire. My guess is that somehow they have played with ground references for the battery meter or noise reduction. Maybe holding the transducer shield at some voltage other than ground?? I'll try to find out more about it next time I talk to John.
I think the main problem is charge-on-the run systems that put all batteries in parallel when the outboard is running.
From what I know from John Jones, the symptom you usually see is a hot connector on the transducer line.
CP i changed my livewell pump now both + and - from the pump go to TM bat. Do you think the pump will cause interference? THe depth finder is hooked to start battery. There will be no connection between batteries. Other than what they say about the knurled connecter being tied to DF going to start bat. I dont understand if the trolling motor is grounded through this cable connecting the DF to TM ground and the DF is wired to start battery there is already a connection between the 2 . So how will connecting the two NEG. from TM to START Be any different. They are supposibly connected via cable from TM to DF to start battery. I am really confused on this. Besides if only neg. are connected how can there be a short? Without a pos. My understanding of a short is + and- touching.
I previously metered the battery gauge red wire with respect to B- and I red 24v. Never dawned on me to read B- to the black lead of the battery gauge, but I wasn't looking for this particular trouble either.Quote:
Originally Posted by CatFan
I know the transducer cable shield is tied to the motor housing and the internal black wire in the transducer cable from the tm is not tied to the shield, but could be tied to the brown wire. I haven't checked this out yet.
That fuse is a "fast buck" fuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur
I don't believe you are in any trouble. I just need to clarify the info provided by Catfan.
The V2 drawing is incomplete, so I cannot state the correct answer. It is BS I can assure you this.
Any two wires touching (making electrical contact) are considered shorted (a short). When + and _ touch, this is considered a power to ground short.
People crack me up. When a light bulb flickers, people say its got a "short" in it. People like shorts I guess. ha
When I find out what that brown fused wire is tied to, I will tell you what we can do.
OK thanks CP
Just think of that light bulb "short" character as I figure this stuff out (with any help I can get). Who knows who wrote the Text on the Minn Kota warning report. Get my jest. haQuote:
Originally Posted by wilbur
I still dont see how 2 neg. touching could hurt anything even if they are from different sources.
Hey CP maybe one of them HB guys could help like GREG Or Joby. HB is part of MINKOTA
One more little piece of info that might shed some light on what is going on inside the motor. MK says that even using the TM battery to power the depthfinder, such as in a boat with no outboard can cause this problem. This isn't just a little leakage either, as some owners have reported burned wiring and evidence of the nose cone of the motor being hot.
That seems to say that the reference for the transducer negative is tied to something that is not TM battery negative, but that it is held at a particular voltage with respect to TM negative. That could be TM battery positive, but more likely it is some in-between voltage.
What causes the problem isn't connecting the cranking battery negative and the TM battery negative, but connecting TM battery negative to the fishfinder at all.
It even happens if you use one of the TM batteries as the cranking battery for a kicker motor that doesn't share a wired path to the big outboard. It appears that having both lower units in the water provides enough current in some situations to cause problems.
Hmmm...
Other folks are not too happy with this problem. We should have been informed about this crap.
Trolling motor (US2) transducer interference at IDOfishing.com
The big problem IMO is that if you pop the fuse, the noise reduction built into the motor is disabled, but there is no external indication that it's happened.
This seems to have not been well thought out. If the change makes the setup work better, at the very least it should have been well publicized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatFan
I agree. If nothing quits working, it would be hard to tell something has malfunctioned. Anyone could have a blown fuse and not know it and all the add on choke filters to reduce noise is masking a possible blown fuse.. Maybe your TM (Catfan) friend can tell us how to test the fuse. The fuse must be internal. I don't remember seeing a fuse holder in the speed control module area.
I am having interference issues also. I have a HDS 5 using the US2 on the trolling motor and a HDS 10 with structure scan on the console. Both of my units hae interference when the trolling motor is running. Differnet speeds show different interference. Both units are powered of the starting battery. I will check today on the fuse at the trolling motor. Trolling motor is a Terrova 80 lbs. I also use the same setup on my bass boat and have no interference.
Thanks,
Scott