Stand up for your right to make and use tackle containing lead

Early in August, an environmental organization petitioned EPA to ban the use of lead in ammunition and fishing tackle. Federal law allows these petitions and requires EPA to act quickly. With little fanfare, EPA requested public comments on banning lead bullets, shot, sinkers, and other fishing tackle. Comments are due by September 15. After that date, EPA will decide whether to a) drop the idea, or b) propose a regulation that would ban the use of lead in fishing tackle.

NRA quickly killed the idea that ammunition should be subject to a ban on lead. There will be no change to the rules concerning lead bullets and shot.

Fishermen do not enjoy protection under the Second Amendment, so we are now the sole target of EPA's action. If we do not oppose this idea, EPA will almost certainly issue regulations prohibiting the use of:
- lead sinkers
- lead split shot
- lead jig heads
- any other terminal tackle containing lead

Those of us who pour jigs and other tackle items will be forced to stop. Instead, we will be required to use alternate metals with melting points that are too high for do-it-yourselfers. We will have no choice but to purchase jig heads, shot, and sinkers.

The purpose of this forum and thread is to collect ideas which can be used in a response to EPA. If you want to submit a comment to EPA, that's great. Also, I will put up one or more polls (if necessary to determine members' views.) Based on your posts, I will collect your ideas and draft a comment letter on behalf of the C.c community of fishermen. The group comment letter will be submitted to EPA along with the number of C.c members who agree with the points in the document.

If you want to comment individually, go to Regulations.gov and enter Docket ID# EPA-HQ-OPPT-2010-0681.

Bump

I think that someone whom knows what they are doing should make up a petition to be passed around.This would be a good starting point as there are a lot of people here to get to sign it and then pass from here to others that we all know.

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Originally Posted by azslabber

I think that someone whom knows what they are doing should make up a petition to be passed around.This would be a good starting point as there are a lot of people here to get to sign it and then pass from here to others that we all know.

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This special forum is our starting point. Here, we can develop our best points in opposition to a ban. Sometime before 9/15, I will compile the ideas and draft a comment document. Anyone who wants to submit his/her own comment directly to EPA is encouraged to do that. The more comments, the better.

The agencies prefer that we submit our comments online. Paper and signatures are things of the past. Slab or I will submit the document on behalf of the C.c community of fishermen and indicate the number of C.c members registered.

If we disagree on points, I'll create polls that will measure the C.c positions more accurately.

Well,sounds like you know what you are doing.I will do whatever I possibly can to help on this issue.

First, What's the basis for this petition? They have probably hired some very
intelligent people to promote fear in an ignorant, sheepish society. Get the
facts and fight them on a linear basis or we're doomed. I've posted a little on
lead already on a forum for tackle making. Use a government agency to fight
another one, the ATSDR is a excellent place to start. I'll tell you one thing,
our govn. will change the rules before-hand to hide the truth and substan-
ciate there claims. Start downloading and printing off as much info as you can
THIS IS POLITICAL and there's nothing to stop it. I did a post on KDWP's
fishing reports Reg. 2 over this very thing. The COE and the USGS post water
quality reports and lead is one thing that's checked DOWNLOAD AND PRINT.
I saw this one coming the other day when I saw that mining of lead is about
to become a thing of the past. There's only about a 18yr supply left with the
current trends (HMMM). Since I made my post on a gov. blog, my computer
is being attacked repeatedly, my pirate proof computer isn't going to last
much longer. I am a political prisoner, promise, these people will get real
nasty. I don't know if you've noticed, but the wealthy are figuring ways to
own and control the elements. They use fear against us and they're experts
at it. It's a control thing for these greedy bas$%^&#. Believe me or not, I
don't care, but I'm really dying for my childrens rights. I'm a former Chemical
Engineer that was over-exposed at work and I have seen SATAN. lol I'll help
in any way I can. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, get it and organize

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Originally Posted by crappiedoc

First, What's the basis for this petition?

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As far as I can determine, the tree huggers who petitioned EPA to ban jigs and sinkers don't need any basis in fact. It appears that the law allows anyone to do this.

My approach is to treat this as a garden variety rulemaking. Public comments have been requested and it's in my best interest to tell EPA why I don't like this proposal. If there's some sort of conspiracy going on here, that's way above my rank & pay grade.

The petition I read is 100 pages, 5 of these involve fishing, only 1 substan-
ciated claim which was a turtle with lead toxicity. Everything else referred to
lead shot or "bullets" as their main complaint. Their studies seem manipulated
by members of their organizations, which I'll list down below. One of which I
believe is completly fabricated and represents the PETA crowd.(its interesting
reading) Heres the 5 petitioners

Center for Biological Diversity- San Francisco,CA
Jeff Miller [email protected]

American Bird Conservancy- Washington, DC
Michael Fry [email protected]

Assoc. of Avian Veterinarians- Boca Raton, Fl
Adina Rae Freedman [email protected]

Project Gutpile
Anthony Prieto [email protected]

Public Employees for Enviromental Responsibily- Georgetown, CA
Karen Schambach [email protected]

Theres the honchos and their addresses, I'll look up their funding later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crappiedoc

The petition I read is 100 pages, 5 of these involve fishing, only 1 substan-
ciated claim which was a turtle with lead toxicity. Everything else referred to
lead shot or "bullets" as their main complaint.

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I'm surprised anyone could find enough to fill one page on fishing--much less 5! I hadn't given this much thought until today, but it's only natural that lead shot would be a much bigger contributor to any lead poisoning. Lead-wise, there's a key difference between shooters and fishermen. Shooters intend to dump lead into the environment whenever they pull the trigger. Each 12 gauge round I fire will place 1 oz. to 1.5 oz. of lead into the environment. That's the equivalent of 8 to 32 jigs. Fishermen don't intend to dispense lead into the environment. Everything we shoot out there has a line attached to it and we try very hard to retrieve the tackle attached to the line.

It's all hypothetical, with a few studies done on fishermans losses while
fishing, there's also reference to tackle manufacturing: how many pounds
were produced last year and they assumed it was to replace items that were
lost while fishing. It's evident they've never seen a fishermans storage areas.
I do believe that they need to be beaten back so hard that they never try
this again. Fisherman truly are conservationists, and they're basis for in-
cluding tackle are unjustified. They even claim lead was the reason Rome
fell, great theatrics, but pure BS. Maybe we should claim private interest
groups led to the fall of the USSR.

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Originally Posted by Corker

NRA quickly killed the idea that ammunition should be subject to a ban on lead. There will be no change to the rules concerning lead bullets and shot.

Fishermen do not enjoy protection under the Second Amendment, so we are now the sole target of EPA's action. Regulations.gov and enter Docket ID# EPA-HQ-OPPT-2010-0681.

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I'd love you to show any mention of Lead ammunition in the second amendment. There's no protection for the type of ammunition you use. If the NRA squashed it, it was probably with a greased palm. That's how it always goes.

Is anyone going to quit fishing if they can't use lead anymore. I know I'll be out there with whatever it is I have to use.

Not a tree hugger by any means, but I'm a crappie hugger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mduncan62

Is anyone going to quit fishing if they can't use lead anymore. I know I'll be out there with whatever it is I have to use.

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Today you're paying about $0.10 apiece for bare 1/8 oz. jigs. If you pour your own, the cost is a fraction of that. Take a look at the cost of lead-free jigs at this web site. Your 1/8 oz. jig will cost $1.50 each! With costs like this, children and low income fishermen may bypass fishing. It might not happen immediately, but over time, higher costs will take their toll.

Don't just send your info to EPA, send it to your Reps and Senators also!!
Start shutting down as many other avenues as possible. It's an election year
you just might be heard!!:eek:

That's the problem in this country and the rest of the world.Nobody looks further then what they can in front of them until it is too late.

Was on the Cast Boolit site (Reloading) and one of the guys there made the following statement:

"My understanding (from something I read about this in the last couple of days is that the EPA can't regulate anything that is "excise taxed", therefore ammo can't be regulated by them. That said, if I recall correctly, all fishing tackle is also taxed for Pitman-Robertson, so they shouldn't have any jurisdiction over sinkers, either."

Now I've been searching all day and havent' found anything comfirming this but I'll keep looking.

Fatman

next they will want to ban LEAD in our military ammunition. Don't want to poison those freaking taliban. Someone needs to hang these tree huggers from a tree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crappiedoc

The petition I read is 100 pages, 5 of these involve fishing, only 1 substan-
ciated claim which was a turtle with lead toxicity. Everything else referred to
lead shot or "bullets" as their main complaint. Their studies seem manipulated
by members of their organizations, which I'll list down below. One of which I
believe is completly fabricated and represents the PETA crowd.(its interesting
reading) Heres the 5 petitioners

Center for Biological Diversity- San Francisco,CA
Jeff Miller [email protected]

American Bird Conservancy- Washington, DC
Michael Fry [email protected]

Assoc. of Avian Veterinarians- Boca Raton, Fl
Adina Rae Freedman [email protected]

Project Gutpile
Anthony Prieto [email protected]

Public Employees for Enviromental Responsibily- Georgetown, CA
Karen Schambach [email protected]

Theres the honchos and their addresses, I'll look up their funding later.

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bump

The above addresses are the recommended dump-off sites if lead is
outlawed.

corker, you have a pm.

Believe what you want but I can guarantee that the NRA did not win on the excise tax nor did they win on the 2nd amendment. They won with $$$$$$ and nothing else and bought a win if they did get this minor victory. The banning of fishing sinkers is the last thing the NRA wants to see because if it happens they know that all lead in ammunition is next. If you buy that the 2nd amendment is the reason they won go out and get you some mercury and make mercury rounds and see how far you get when you tell an enforcement officer you have them. "But they mushroom better than bullets without it and I want to make sure I get the kill officer." He will listen to you scream 2nd amendment all the way to jail and the NRA will laugh at you.

Lead does not have an excise tax on it until it is processed into fising tackle or ammunition. You all should know that! So how is it going to be used to defend that lead can't be regulated for fishing or hunting when raw lead does not have an excise tax?

Is a good fight to fight but lame tactics without billions of $$$$$ to back it won't do us any good.

*Thank you for contacting me regarding the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) possible ban on lead ammunition and fishing tackles.**Understanding your ideas and concerns is important to me, as it helps me to better represent you and the Fifth District of Oklahoma.
*
As you may know, several environmental advocacy groups petitioned the EPA seeking to ban lead in ammunition.* A coalition of conservation groups sent a petition in August arguing that the use of lead in ammo and fishing tackle is poisoning the nation's lakes, ponds and forests.* These groups are asking the EPA to ban the "manufacture, processing and distribution" of lead shot, bullets and fishing tackle.* On August 27, 2010, the EPA rejected the petition claiming they have a lack of jurisdiction in this matter.
*
The fifth district of Oklahoma contains rural townships and a number of state and national parks. Fishing is a common activity enjoyed by many of my constituents.* I understand the importance of preserving the ecological health of Oklahoma's natural water ways and marine wildlife.* However, like you, I believe fishing regulations should continue to be administered by the states and believe bureaucrats in Washington, DC should not interfere with your rights to fish.
*
Thank you again for taking the time to share your ideas and concerns. As the Congress addresses the many challenges facing our nation, I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and views with me. However, due to increased security measures, mail delivery may be delayed for up to two weeks. Accordingly, I encourage you to visit my website at*Congresswoman Mary Fallin : Home to contact me via email in the future. While visiting my site you may also sign up for my e-newsletter as well as find useful information about the 5th District.
*

************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************************Sincerely,

************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************************Mary Fallin
************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************************Member of Congress

Sounds like they groups lost for now. EPA doens't have any enough research and scientific fact to do anything right now. The EPA, FDA and whatever other group might have the power to ban lead will be collecting data and finding out if lead is becoming toxic but they have nothing yet.

At least the EPA was not willing to cave in just because of activist preassure. Now we have to make sure our state government knows we feel the same way. Unfortunately too many laws are made by those that have the money in politics. Thankfully the EPA is not run by elected officials.

Hey CJ, what your take on this letter. Is she mis-informed?

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Originally Posted by crappie josh

On August 27, 2010, the EPA rejected the petition claiming they have a lack of jurisdiction in this matter.

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WRONG!!

On 8/27, EPA rejected ONLY the part of the petition dealing with ammo. It did not reject the part dealing with tackle.

You may want to question this further & perhaps contact the Congresswoman's office by phone.

This rulemaking is off track badly. Hunters/shooters continue to flood EPA with irrelevant comments because they believe the agency is still considering a ban on ammo. Meanwhile, fishermen are being told not to worry because the petition has been rejected. Both of these "understandings" are wrong!

i think she dont know what she is doing and at no point did she answer the part of the letter reguarding fishing tackle...
never said they were smart, just over paid

That is an auto response.I got the same email from my congreeman here in Arizona.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crappie josh

i think she dont know what she is doing and at no point did she answer the part of the letter reguarding fishing tackle...
never said they were smart, just over paid

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The point we need to make, immediately, is that there is widespread misunderstanding. Here, we learn that members of Congress cannot determine what action a federal agency is taking. If EPA does not require the petitioners to strip their document of content relating to ammo, no one can know exactly what's being considered. If we don't know which data and conclusions the petitioners are now directing at fishing tackle, we can't respond.