All you OKC fishermen

The City is planning to close the Fish Hatchery and as I understand it, lay off Bob Martin and the part timers who help him now.

You need to contact your city councilman and tell them that's not a good idea.

They raise hybrids and walleye at the hatchery. They also raise catfish for the Close to Home lakes, all of which you may or may not fish for, but that's really not the point. The problem here involves the fishing permit they make us purchase.

We get nothing for that permit fee. I always thought it was dedicated to operate the hatchery and do all the other stuff Bob Martin does, like the kids fishing in the summer and the trout at Dolese. But that's not what happens, that money just goes into the general fund to pay for city operations.

Now , we get very little for that permit money now and if they close the hatchery then we get zip, nada, nothing . It just becomes a tax we pay because we fish.

And that is extremely unfair ......... in fact, I would think it to be illegal to tax someone because they have a certain hobby.

They don't make the walkers and joggers buy a permit to use the trails around the lake.

They don't make people buy a " picnic permit " to go have an outing on the lake.

They don't have to buy a " water ski " permit.

It just goes on and on, this is unreal what they have planned to do.

If the City spends no money on fishing, then they have no justification to make us buy a permit.

Maybe you've never contacted your councilman before , but this is the time to do it. We want something for our money. No matter how little that may be.

Your calls need to be aimed at Wendell Wisenhunt,director of Parks and Recreation Department. He is the one who is proposing to close the hatchery. The City is asking for a 12% across the board budget cut in all departments. He has received numerous calls already on this matter. Let's step up the calls and tell him know what you think.

I have never really thought about it like that but you are exactly right, I am willing to help any way I can, I fish with my girls around hefner and overholser a few days a week

Thanks for taking the time to let us know.

I fish both Hefner and Overholser year round. I will give Wendell Wisenhunt and let him know my opinion on the matter. Either a phone number or email from Wendell would make things faster.

Oklahoma City Parks & Recreation Dept.
Wendel Whisenhunt, Director
420 W Main
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
405 297-3882

I didn't see an email address but here is his phone number.

I also sent an email to my councilman here in ward 8

lol......you really think they care if you catch a fish or not......all they care about is money..the best thing you can do is vote them all out of office...fishing has sucked since the early 90s...think about it...they lied about maps 3 so they could sell their own land to themseves and make millions on dumb ass projects and telling you all was well...bs! they are asking all city agencies to take 15% cuts including fire and police..they could care less if you catch a crappie or not...get them out...that the best thing you can do..you want crappie..better stock them yourself.....city fisheries suck...only because of who is in charge..get them out and get priorities straight and get fishing back on track...charge those *******s on bikes the same as those guys in boats and make it even!

oh and the general fund is nothing more than the pants pocket of the city....they are thieves taking from the citizens of the the city and i for one have had enough of it!

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-fish...ad_story_title

Lazylakedog- I understand your frustration directed at OKC administration but do NTO take it out on the biologist and his staff. The biologist has worked for 27 years improving the fisheries, and to provide quality fishing. Where else can you catch walleye averaging 3.5 - 4#'s? Quality striper hybrids such as the 9.5# hybrid that I caught a few years ago from the lake one windy early Sunday morning. Sandies that average 1 - 2 pounds. Channels and blues that have exceeded 15#'s. Crappie averaging around a pound for a good one and in good numbers. The current lake record smallmouth is 6.5 pounds, largemouth bass in excess of 10 pounds,walleye in excess of 11 pounds,and striper hybrid over 18 pounds. Without the City's fisheries program and the Hatchery the walleye, striper hybrids and smallmouth would not have been possible or present for anglers to catch.
Bob and his crew have done a comprehensive fish habitat program that has installed alot of fish habitats in the City Lakes and close to home waters that have made alot of crappie anglers happy.
Besides the fisheries work that they do on the lake they also conduct fishing classes that are co sponsored by OKCPD PAL for school age kids. I have personally assisted in these classes and the kids really love them. The staff teaches around 1,000 kids and adults each year.

Instead of attacking the biologist volunteers and staff for all the work that they have done for you. You need to attack the administrative people that want to eliminate this great fishing program. CALL YOUR COUNCILMAN, CITY MANAGER,MAYOR AND PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR. The numbers I have provided on the off topic post. Go there and call the ones causing the potential loss.

This program has generated considerable revenue for the City for many years and contributed to the quality of life for numerous generations of citizens.

my apologies....i was not directly referring to Bob Martin and his staff...I was more referring to the city council and the funds that Bob and his crew are given to work with...I am pretty sure that all of our permit money we pay each year is funneled into the general fund and spent on something to fill the councils own pockets. My regards to Bob and his efforts...He has done great for what he is given to work with.

Lazylakedog - Bob is under immense pressure right now by the administration over all the attention given to the hatchery. I suspect the public is bombarding the council members with calls and emails. My councilman,Gary Marrs, indicated that he had received numerous emails and calls. The public must be getting upset over the possible loss. There is something going on under foot,in my opinion, that is not good. I do not know what it is yet but something is not right. The City is receiving money in excess of the annual hatchery cost and instead of cutting 12% out of the hatchery budget the hatchery is being targeted for closure. Think about that for a moment.

I cannot comment any further on this, I'm sorry.

I'm concerned that if they keep the hatchery open, they will raise the price of a permit.

Fishermen are the only users of OKC parks and recreation that have to pay our own way.

If they close the hatchery, I won't buy another permit or boat permit. I'm done with it. Its the most unfair , unjust thing I've ever seen. There is absolutely no justification to charge for a permit without spending money to maintain or improve the fishing.

But I will say this also, that from what I hear, the only way the hatchery remains open is if they hear from enough fishermen. If the fishermen don't speak up, it will be their fault as much as Whisenhunt and the Council.

There comes a time when fishermen have to speak up and quit allowing themselves to get pushed around.

Two Bits, I totally agree...the permits to me are already too high....I pay that much to fish in a pond with no fish???.....I would do better fishing in a pothole!...Another thing....a boat permit is 25...which I guess if you are just boating is an ok price to get your boat on the water...but, If you ever fish around the sailboat docks...take a minute and look at the last date on the sticker of those????...I figure if the last time a guy bought a sticker was in 94 then thats good enough for me not too buy one next time as well.

Now the really bad news...I just read an article that states that 24 police and 29 firefighters might be laid off because of the budget shortfall.....so I would have to imagine that fishing is the last thing on the city councils mind at the moment.

Yep, up here in Tulsa we have already been laying off emergency services people. The Tulsa Police Department lost 124 officers earlier this year. Times are extremely tough.

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Originally Posted by lazylakedog

Now the really bad news...I just read an article that states that 24 police and 29 firefighters might be laid off because of the budget shortfall.....so I would have to imagine that fishing is the last thing on the city councils mind at the moment.

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It does not matter how many cops they lay off.

The issue is ........ that we pay for a permit. And if that money does not go to fishing then there's no rationale for charging us for a permit.

They would be taxing us just because we fish.

They don't tax people to water ski. The ski boat guy buys a permit for his boat like we do, but then he does not have to pay to water ski when we have to pay to fish.

They can not expect us to pay a tax the other citizens do not have to pay.

The rest of it is their problem.

If they tax us, then they should tax everybody who uses parks and lakes ......... they can not just tax one group of people.

2bits - It is called discrimination. Keep the presure up, keep calling. Its working. The administration is getting nervous.

There is a permit fee to ride motorcycles at Draper...there used to be a permit required to water ski there...There might even be a fee required to ride horses there...not sure about that one...I never figured any of that money went into the water itself....It sure has bought alot of nice payment for freeloading walkers and bike riders...I think there should be at least a five or ten dollar fee for bikes to ride on the trails we bought for them....I wonder what the non-payers would do if the trails were going to close....and as for the lay offs....as I recall the mayor stated that if we all passed maps 3 that the public services would not be affected and funded from that money...and what about that extra money we pay every month for emsa service....last I heard they were throwing that away on a 150,000 dollar study on bus routes...hhhhmmmmmmm......face it guys.....fishing is not priority....I for one can't wait for elections to clean house on that council....when you call ticked off about closing the hatchery....be sure to mention you are ticked off about how they are spending your hard earned money on useless projects and being dishonest to you as a citizen.

If they move forward with this every single fisherman who uses those waters should boycott them.

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Originally Posted by lazylakedog

There is a permit fee to ride motorcycles at Draper...there used to be a permit required to water ski there...There might even be a fee required to ride horses there...not sure about that one...I never figured any of that money went into the water itself....It sure has bought alot of nice payment for freeloading walkers and bike riders...I think there should be at least a five or ten dollar fee for bikes to ride on the trails we bought for them....I wonder what the non-payers would do if the trails were going to close....and as for the lay offs....as I recall the mayor stated that if we all passed maps 3 that the public services would not be affected and funded from that money...and what about that extra money we pay every month for emsa service....last I heard they were throwing that away on a 150,000 dollar study on bus routes...hhhhmmmmmmm......face it guys.....fishing is not priority....I for one can't wait for elections to clean house on that council....when you call ticked off about closing the hatchery....be sure to mention you are ticked off about how they are spending your hard earned money on useless projects and being dishonest to you as a citizen.

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And the mayor was correct. I voted for MAPS3, and I would vote for it again. Those monies are for projects that are completely separate from everyday city operations, just like a bond issue for street projects or capital improvements. That's just basic municipal finance, everything is funded and accounted for separately.

Those are not useless projects and I'm very happy with the direction the city is going. I just disagree on this particular issue. When you start hammering away at everything the city does, it just weakens your argument.

And the only fee to water ski is buying a boat permit. I can understand a permit for off road trails, I'm sure there's maintenance involved on those trails from time to time. But if you wanna go there ........ then golfers have to pay to play the golf courses ........ the difference is the off road trails and golf courses are single use venues.

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Originally Posted by meatdragger

If they move forward with this every single fisherman who uses those waters should boycott them.

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Yes, they should. But they won't. Which is why Whisenhunt knows he can get away with this. He sounds confident , at least to me, that fishermen will continue to buy permits.

well two bits...too bad we didn't pass a tax for a fish hatchery and public service instead of a 70 acre homeless park that i will never visit...did you forget we already passed the hotel tax to improve the fairgrounds?....double dipping on that one....do we really need a new cox center??????.....we really put ourselves in a pickle this time!

ok...off my soap box....the issue is the closing of the hatchery....keep calling guys...let them know we will not be buying permits to use the lake and where our priorities are....not sure they care...but at least they will know we do!

I voted for MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and MAPS3 ............... and I would vote for it again, and again, and again. That funds the type of projects that will improve the quality of life in OKC, make the city a more attractive place to live, and grow our local economy ........ which will increase our tax base.

I've been here 40 years and I'm more proud of OKC than I've ever been. I see more promise for the future than ever before. I'm glad Ron Norick and others had this vision almost 20 years ago.

I'm sorry you don't share that vision.

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Originally Posted by lazylakedog

well two bits...too bad we didn't pass a tax for a fish hatchery and public service instead of a 70 acre homeless park that i will never visit...did you forget we already passed the hotel tax to improve the fairgrounds?....double dipping on that one....do we really need a new cox center??????.....we really put ourselves in a pickle this time!

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The value of a new convention center.

Help attract more and larger conventions.

More and larger conventions helps the downtown hotels stay in business and possibly create need for more downtown hotels to be built.

The more hotel rooms the city has, the larger the events the city can bid to bring to Oklahoma City. Bigger and better sporting events, concerts, etc.

We've already grown hotel space to be large enough to hold the Big 12 basketball tournament. I'd like to see more.

And while I will never stay in a downtown hotel, I , or more likely my daughter and her children, will enjoy the big time events that come to OKC.

So , do we need a new convention center ? If those who are working to bring conventions to OKC think it would be a great help , then by all means , get it done.

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Originally Posted by TwoBits

I voted for MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and MAPS3 ............... and I would vote for it again, and again, and again. That funds the type of projects that will improve the quality of life in OKC, make the city a more attractive place to live, and grow our local economy ........ which will increase our tax base.

I've been here 40 years and I'm more proud of OKC than I've ever been. I see more promise for the future than ever before. I'm glad Ron Norick and others had this vision almost 20 years ago.

I'm sorry you don't share that vision.

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When I paid $20 to park downtown last week, it reaffirmed my desire to NOT be like "big league cities." But even so, if they'd been RESPONSIBLE and said something to the effect of "these are hard times, so we're going to need a .01 temp tax for the budget, and when that's resolved, we'd like to initiate a .01 for Maps3" I'd probably be for it. Instead, they said, "we don't care about your fishing, we don't care about emergency response times, heck, we don't care about your safety at all, we just want to make sure the rich keep getting richer."

Now I'm a hard-core, straight-line republican. I BELIEVE in trickle-down economics. I just don't believe in putting the cart in front of the horse (in other words, I don't beleve in building secondary infrastructure before you've satisfied the needs of the primary infrastructure).

I park downtown for $5 , all the time, never pay more.

We have an adequate tax base to fund city operations, I believe its 3% of sales. Its not the 3% part that is wrong, its the sales part that is down. The 3% part is very adequate, you want more money, grow the economy.

Besides, it does not hurt for any government entity to go through bad times and have to trim the ship. The last thing you do in bad economic times, is raise your tax base. Business trims in the bad times and they come out of it leaner and meaner and better for it, government should be no different.

But you can not put off working on improving the city's economy during the bad times, if there's any time you need to make yourself even more attractive to new business, then that is the time.

And folks, the oil and gas business is not going to last forever. In a lot of ways, we need to diversify our economy and these are steps we need to take to get there.

And you also can not sit and be happy with the status quo, for cities, they are either growing or shrinking, there's no middle ground. It takes a lot of work in the economic development area just to replace jobs a city loses every year.

Right now, Tulsa is gonna have a big hurdle to get over when they are faced with replacing the Thrifty Dollar Rentacar jobs. And those were primo jobs, the home office jobs, the kind of jobs every city covets the most. They are the top execs, the IT people, the accountants ......... all the really high paying jobs. If Tulsa is not working hard to attract new business, then before long, they become Lawton.

All this time I had no idea Mayor Mic was a member of crappie.com!

All kidding aside, I'd love to know where you parked for $5 when there was a Thunder playoff game, the arts festival, a redhawks game, and a 6A high school prom in bricktown. I had the honor of working two such nights, and parking was ridiculous! Send me a PM if you don't want the whole world to know your secret spot.

Again, I agree with most of what you're saying. In my industry (LASIK eye surgery), if the economy is not growing, we're one of the first to feel the affect. I'm all-for growing the economy. The only problem I have is when you admittedly attempt to grow a city without the necessary PRIMARY infrastructure. It'd be like Chase saying they want to add 20 floors to their downtown tower to keep up with Devon while the engineers say they don't have the foundation to support that extra weight. Or the city of Moore attracting all that new retail when they didn't have the water/sewer systems to support them (that happened, and I lived in Moore at the time; trust me, it was NASTY!). I applaud the long-range vision, but how about a little forecasting for the interim?

You said "The last thing you do in bad economic times, is raise your tax base." And I agree. You can split hairs by saying the Maps3 tax is temporary so it's not in the "base," but for 7 years plus, we can count on it to be as steady as the base tax. So what we've just done is raise taxes in bad economic times. Unfortunately, we did so for frivolous venues that could have waited a year or two. Then AFTER the vote, we're told they're going to take even more money 'cause the prison needs some work. And all I'm asking for is a few sheckels so we can have decent fishing without driving an hour.

You know, I haven't noticed anyone mention the effect this closure would have on crappie specifically. The hatchery doesn't stock crappie, but the walleye they stock are intentionally used to prey on crappie to control the population. And since I will not be buying a city permit after they close the hatchery, the #1 predator of crappie (that would be me :D) is gone. And the #2 predator (walleye) will be fished out in a matter of a few years. Hence the overpopulation and stunting of crappie as we know it. Call your councilman/woman!

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Originally Posted by DC Crappie Kid

All this time I had no idea Mayor Mic was a member of crappie.com!

All kidding aside, I'd love to know where you parked for $5 when there was a Thunder playoff game, the arts festival, a redhawks game, and a 6A high school prom in bricktown. I had the honor of working two such nights, and parking was ridiculous! Send me a PM if you don't want the whole world to know your secret spot.

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Its no big secret, they are all over the place. Start with the Santa Fe garage, and a city lot under I-40 off Harvey, any lot more than 1 or 2 blocks from the Ford. There are $5 lots all through Bricktown. I don't see your problem here, the only $20 parking I see is in the Marriot right next to the Ford. And the lots across the street from the Ford to the west are $10.

There's no secret spot, $5 parking is everywhere. You were parking with the muckety mucks if you paid $20 .

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Again, I agree with most of what you're saying. In my industry (LASIK eye surgery), if the economy is not growing, we're one of the first to feel the affect. I'm all-for growing the economy. The only problem I have is when you admittedly attempt to grow a city without the necessary PRIMARY infrastructure.

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I don't see the problem you're speaking of here. Just flat don't see it. Our three percent sales tax is plenty high enough to support city operations and there's other methods of funding these " infrastructure " needs you say are not there, mainly through bond issues.

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You said "The last thing you do in bad economic times, is raise your tax base." And I agree. You can split hairs by saying the Maps3 tax is temporary so it's not in the "base," but for 7 years plus, we can count on it to be as steady as the base tax. So what we've just done is raise taxes in bad economic times. Unfortunately, we did so for frivolous venues that could have waited a year or two. Then AFTER the vote, we're told they're going to take even more money 'cause the prison needs some work. And all I'm asking for is a few sheckels so we can have decent fishing without driving an hour.

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Its not splitting hairs that MAPS3 is temporary.

The reason you do not raise tax rates in down times, is when the economy recovers , tax revenues far exceed necessary levels and when was the last time you saw any government body lower tax rates during good economic times. They don't usually , they find new programs to fund, new ways to spend that new money. The only time I've seen that in my lifetime was the State lowering income tax rates a few years ago. If they don't lower the tax rates, then after a couple of economic ups and downs, tax rates become too high and government growth is out of control.

And its during the down times is when an opportunity arises to become more efficient, again it does not hurt for government to trim some fat and find out what is important and necessary .......... and what is not.

Again, I know this is hard for many to comprehend, but MAPS3 is an entirely separate financial entity than the every day operation of city government. MAPS3 is an investment in the future. And it was not a tax increase, it was continuation of a tax in place. And a majority of city residents have decided its worth the investment.

And this whole idea of tax decreases stimulating an economy only works on a national level. That concept really does not apply to local level. It has such a small impact, its negligible.

As for the hatchery, what bothers me most is that the money has been there for the hatchery through a lot of good and bad times. If it survived the 1980's, then it should survive any economic downturn. My best guess for what has happened in Parks and Rec dept, is over a period of time, say the last 10 years , they've added new programs when their revenues were fat. And now, they have decided to keep funding the new programs over the hatchery. That's merely my best guess.

The hatchery: We all recognize that everyone who spends time and money for recreation at our lake contributes to our city's economic health and our quality of life. Every visitor to the lake contributes to the richness of the lake experience and the valueof Lake Hefner to OKC. WE all know how much our activities contrbute to the quality of life and prosperity in OKC but not everyone does.

The time is short. Contact City Council representatives and the Mayor now. City representatives and staff are working to balance the budget in this revenue shortfall and it won't be easy. May 25, the budget recommending closing the hatchery will be introduced to the council. June 8th is the hearing. June 15 is the vote. The hatchery is a revenue producer when you count everything and it can be revenue neutral if all you count is permit fees. The hatchery is good for Lake Hefner, and good for the economy.

Here are a few facts you can share with Council reps to help them make the best decision:

1) The hatchery costs $160,000.00/yr but can be run on $140,000.00.

2) Anglers bought 1,804 City permits in 2008 totaling $140,640.00 which could pay for the hatchery.

3) Retail sales from fishing was $14,825,937.00.

4) Retail sales tax from fishing was $610,696.00 state and $574,241.00 city.

5) 168 median wage retail jobs were supported bt fishing in OKC.

6)Hatchery staff cost is matched annualyy by a $3 to $1 federal grant totaling $210,000.00 for fishing related infrastructure in OKC.

7) State Wildlife Department provides the hatchery 1.2 million fry to raise for the 3 reservoirs and 13 smaller metro fishing lakes annually.

8) Losing the hatchery means losing most of the fish, a significant part of the retail sales and the permits, and all of the $210,000.00 annual fishing infrastructure funding.

9) Losing the hatchery means the cost to maintaining fishing stocks would be $500,000.00.

The council men and women will receive this information very shortly. Based on this information, does it make sense to close the hatchery??????????

You be the judge. Pick up the telephone and make another call to your councilmen or women and discuss these facts with them. If you do not live in OKC but fish the lake then your opinion still matters. See if they understand the numbers. Ask them if it make sense to close the hatchery based on these numbers?

I've got a mistake on this info. I will make the correction later tonight. Please check back for update.

The following items have some changes:
Item 2 - The correct number is 18,004 permits.
Items 3 - The change is $7,250,000
Item 4 - The change is $607,000 and $281,000 respectively.
The Math

$140,680.00 permit income
$281,000.00 City sales tax revenue
$210,000.00 ODWC Federal grant
___________
$631,680.00 Total Income
-$160,000.00 annual hatchery cost
___________
$471,680.00 profit

$471,680.00/$160,000.00 = $2.95 For every $1.00 invested in the hatchery annually OKC receives a return of $2.95. HHMMMM I wish I could receive that in my business. Now let me get this straight in my mind. The Hatchery needs to be closed instead of taking a 12% cut because the City is losing money. The closing is because it is receiving a return on investment of $2.95. Does this make sense to you? Ask your councilmen and women if it makes sense to them.

The numbers come from data supplied by ODWC, U.S. Census Bureau, and U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and City of OKC.

June 8th is the hearing and the council vote is June 15th. If you want the hatchery to remain open and maintain the quality of current fishing then the future lies in the councils hands and yours. Please call again and discuss these numbers with them and ask the question.It appears that the hatchery is providing a significant profit to the City so why would you, Mr/Mrs Council person vote to close the hatchery????

Suggestion: After asking the question do not say another word until they answer. The longer they are left in the hotseat the better.

In 1995, I believe, Parks and Rec attempted to close the hatchery for the same reason. I have heard, but cannot confirm, that the same person that tried to close the hatchery then is trying to close it now.

Did the council decide anything yesterday ? I can find nothing in the paper, except that Aubrey McClendon of Chesapeake donated $39,000 to keep a city pool open.

If Whisenhunt was talking about closing pools or closing the hatchery, well he now has $39,000 more to work with.

Good thing on McClendon's part.

For all the people who bash him over the rowing , he donates a lot of money to plenty of causes in OKC and Oklahoma.

2Bits- The next meeting is 6/8 with final vote on 6/15. Aubrey MecClendon HAS done alot for OKC so you won't see me bashing him.


I have one additional corrrection to the numbers previously posted. I need to double check the number before I make the addition.

The addition/correction is the addition of $69,337.00 to the amount received for City permits which was $140,640.00. So $140,640.00 + $69,337.00 = #209,977.00. The added money is due to the fact that 2/3 of the boaters are anglers. This raises the profit from $471,680.00 to 541,017.00 or a return on investment of $3.60 up from $2.95.

The council members now have these numbers in their possession. The next meeting on this in 6/8/10. Now is the time to again discuss these numbers with your council members. Time is of the essence.

I feel like I've done everything I can do. I've posted about this everywhere its pertinent and even a couple places where it was waayyyy off topic. I've emailed my councilman three times.

If the hatchery is closed, IMO, the fault will be on the shoulders of those who fish OKC water and did nothing. I gotta think there's enough people who fish , that if only half of them spoke up, that it would save the hatchery.

Unless Whisenhunt and the Council are just dead set against fishing in OKC, no matter how many people if impacts.

2BITS-
Here is what I know. 4 council people are in favor of retention of the hatchery and 4 are undecided. Cornett is "open minded" about the hatchery.

2bits - send me your cell in a PM.

Hatchery Is Not Closing This Year!...just Passed At Council Meeting

They did suggest raising fishing permit fees to 20 to offset the cost...the only problem I have with the fees is the fact that the money goes to the general fund where they spend the money the way they want to....why not make a special fund where fees are used for fishing and lake improvement....the other suggestion was to raise the boating permit as well......they said that this might not work because the sailboats did not want to pay more for fishing........I sure wish they would take a boat tour of the marina and count the boats that have permit stickers from 2004 on them.......they don't even buy permits.....thats bs!

Thanks For All Your Hard Work Cricket!!!!!....and All Those Who Called And Emailed...it Really Paid Off!

Dang Lazylakedog, I just got the call 2 minutes ago and Rick had to go back in the meeting!!!!!!!!!!!! You beat me to the punch:D:D:D