Rathbun size and creel limits

Ok, so I am in favor of at least some limits on size and numbers taken daily. I have thought about this quite a bit, I am in favor of practices that will increase the overall size and abundance of Crappie in all Iowa Lakes, especially Ratbun. I have formed my oppinion based on what many southern Lakes have done to improve their Crappie.

I recently read this article at Iowadnr.gov that has me a little perplexed though. It seems to say that creel limits have little or no effect on Crappie, when lake levels are above normal pool between April-August, as has been the case for most of the last 5 years. I am curious as to what you guys think about this...

The dnr article:

Crappie is the single most important sportfish at Lake Rathbun where as many as 300,000 have been taken by anglers in a single year. A research investigation showed that the number of crappie harvested was directly related to the number of crappie in the reservoir. Furthermore, the number of crappie available to the angler was definitely dependent on the hatching and nursery conditions, two, three and four years previous. The most favorable conditions, which produced the greatest number of crappie, was high water from April to August. Other important conditions included adequate spawning substrate, uniform and increasing temperatures during spawning and clean water. The number and size of crappies harvested by anglers had little to do with total harvest in subsequent years. Harvest regulations, either by creel limit or size limit would, would have little or no effect on crappie fishing at Rathbun Lake. The most important things which affected crappie angling were attributed to the environment. Now that we have this information we are currently developing a water level management plan with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. This agreement will result in water levels being held to certain levels throughout the year. Specifically, we hope to have the water levels at stages that are most beneficial to crappie production.

I like the number limit that they have in place now, but I have to agree with the articale that states it has more to do with lake levals. I beleave that we are paying for the couple years of low water(3 or 4 years ago) last year and this year at Rathbun and everywhere else that was efected by the low water years.We've been saying that same thing since I started fishing the lake,high water during the spawn but make sure it gets drawn down at sometime so cover can grow up on the shore lines for the next years spawn.

Rathbun, like Red Rock and Saylorville weren't built with crappie fishing in mind. They were built for flood control and the crappies are just a byproduct. They have their up and down cycles like always, BUT, with limits in place now, those cycles should smooth out a bit instead of being a large curve on the chart. Size limits would smooth that curve even more but that will have to be a personal decision by the fisherman. I don't think the state will persue this any further.
There are too many things going against our Rathbun fish. No shoreline protection from boat and wind erosion, very little vegitation for fish to hide in, too much additional silt coming in from the Chariton River. And because of the flooding, the lake has lost a lot of needed predator fish like walleyes thru the spillway. I know there are other things I can't think of right now.
Limits and leaving the lake higher during the spawn is a good start tho.
I'm just a barstool biologist, but it seems the DNR is trying to mange our bigger lakes with a 'farm pond' manual.

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Originally Posted by herb

Rathbun, like Red Rock and Saylorville weren't built with crappie fishing in mind. They were built for flood control and the crappies are just a byproduct. They have their up and down cycles like always, BUT, with limits in place now, those cycles should smooth out a bit instead of being a large curve on the chart. Size limits would smooth that curve even more but that will have to be a personal decision by the fisherman. I don't think the state will persue this any further.
There are too many things going against our Rathbun fish. No shoreline protection from boat and wind erosion, very little vegitation for fish to hide in, too much additional silt coming in from the Chariton River. And because of the flooding, the lake has lost a lot of needed predator fish like walleyes thru the spillway. I know there are other things I can't think of right now.
Limits and leaving the lake higher during the spawn is a good start tho.
I'm just a barstool biologist, but it seems the DNR is trying to mange our bigger lakes with a 'farm pond' manual.

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Very informative post. You make some excellent points. I bolded a section I beilieve we all can have a impact on. We all can sink structure, It is not much more difficult than fishing. It just takes a little preperation. ALso you will be making your own honey hole too.:)

We as crappie anglers should get together and organize a structure dropping day. It would be a good way to meet some new people, develop friendships, better the lakes we enjoy. With a little preperation we could do alot to benefit the overall crappie production in Rathbun and other Lakes as well...

Herb,
Great post will likely cause some conflict. I've been preaching limits and size limits on crappies since the early 90's. Response from the DNR was it isnt needed.Funny part is every state around north, south, east, and west of Iowa has a possesion limits as well as a length limit on crappie. Many of those waters are Corps water as well.Another funny part is many of those Corps lakes have a winter draw down stage lower than normal pool. Wonder when we're going to get a clue and follow suit.After three years of NOT being able to control the flood pool on rathbun I think they are really starting to rethink that issue as well. Especially after spending all the money and time riprapping the north shore this winter. I know the SDNR is getting frustrated with producing quality fish only to have them go through the spillway.That could start a thread all in its own. The frustrating part is when a group of people actually want restrictions to better a body of water are rediculed for trying to improved the fishery.Great topic Herb.

Putting your own 'structure' in the lake is done quite frequently, but it should be on the down low because as far as I know it's still against the law to do so. Don't get me wrong here. I applaud and thank all of you who do it, for if it wasn't for you guys, Rathbun would be devoid of cover except for the piddly stuff the DNR put in years ago. I've been told by others that Officials will look the other way if you use your head and do a proper structure drop so the stuff doesn't end up in the spillway outlet. I live 2 1/2 hours from the lake, haven't been over there for about 3 or 4 years, so for me to try a structure drop is unlikely. That's why I thank those of you who get it done.
As for the topic of limits, like prchjerker said, other states around us have done this with success, why can't it work here?
Maybe if the fisheries people would put the textbook back on the shelf, grab a rod and get out on the water and do some serious fishing, talk to other fishermen, see what other states are doing and see why or why not it works, maybe they would understand what us barstool biologists are talking about.
Just because we don't have a degree behind our names doesn't mean we are dummies.
I'm not trying to diss our fisheries people. I think for the most part they do an excellent job given what they have to work with in this state. But like the rest of us, you can always do better.

I would like to see a 9" size limit on Crappie at Rathbun. I love to fish Rathbun, but I always make a couple trips to Truman lake down by Sedalia,Mo. Truman has a 9" limit on Crappie and let me tell ya, most everything you catch is way bigger than 9" because of the size limit. I've been fishing both lakes for over 25 yrs and there is no reason Rathbun can not have the same results. Now I catch some nice Crappie at Rathbun, but come on, these 7 inchers as of late are getting old.

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Originally Posted by herb

Putting your own 'structure' in the lake is done quite frequently, but it should be on the down low because as far as I know it's still against the law to do so. Don't get me wrong here. I applaud and thank all of you who do it, for if it wasn't for you guys, Rathbun would be devoid of cover except for the piddly stuff the DNR put in years ago. I've been told by others that Officials will look the other way if you use your head and do a proper structure drop so the stuff doesn't end up in the spillway outlet. I live 2 1/2 hours from the lake, haven't been over there for about 3 or 4 years, so for me to try a structure drop is unlikely. That's why I thank those of you who get it done.
As for the topic of limits, like prchjerker said, other states around us have done this with success, why can't it work here?
Maybe if the fisheries people would put the textbook back on the shelf, grab a rod and get out on the water and do some serious fishing, talk to other fishermen, see what other states are doing and see why or why not it works, maybe they would understand what us barstool biologists are talking about.
Just because we don't have a degree behind our names doesn't mean we are dummies.
I'm not trying to diss our fisheries people. I think for the most part they do an excellent job given what they have to work with in this state. But like the rest of us, you can always do better.

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Herb,

I honestly did not know that it is illegal. I have always followed the law right or wrong. I am going to contact the DNR at LAke Rathbun and ask. I appreciate the info though. ANd if in fact it is illegal to put structure in the Lake, I will start lobbying to get that law repealed. As long as the structure is safe, location and material, we should be allowed to better our fisheries.

Hey bec32173, if you find out that I'm wrong, please post it here. To be honest, I really hope I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by herb

Hey bec32173, if you find out that I'm wrong, please post it here. To be honest, I really hope I am wrong.

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Im thinking your right Herb.

I always had a slot limit for my crappies 9"-14", bigger boys for a better gene pool.

Herb,

The official word on making and sinking structure is it is not illegal if you have a permit. THis process is done by asking for a permit from the Army Corp of engineers, who will likely refer you to the biologists at the hatchery. You will need to fill out a few forms and let them know what your intentions are and what you are sinking. THey informed me that it use to be legal without a permit now they would like to know about it so they can have some say.

I am in the process of applying for a permit, I will keep all of you posted. Hopefully we can organize a group thing in the future.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject, I will let everyone know how smooth the process is.

If anyone is interested in the contact info I would be happy to post it.

Local fishing clubs have worked with the DNR and more importantly the Corps on Saylorville to sink Cedar Trees for structure. the only thing with your permit is you have to devuldge your location of the structure. Most people that are putting habitat enhancement I would guess arent too willing to give up those coordinates.It does help the over all fish population since most of Rathbun was cleared of all timber.I for one wouldnt run around bragging that I was putting such structures out, but would be more apt to be a speak no evil, hear evil see no evil approach to it. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by prchjerker

Local fishing clubs have worked with the DNR and more importantly the Corps on Saylorville to sink Cedar Trees for structure. the only thing with your permit is you have to devuldge your location of the structure. Most people that are putting habitat enhancement I would guess arent too willing to give up those coordinates.It does help the over all fish population since most of Rathbun was cleared of all timber.I for one wouldnt run around bragging that I was putting such structures out, but would be more apt to be a speak no evil, hear evil see no evil approach to it. Just my 2 cents.

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I must agree, had I known that you needed a permit to put structure out. I not sure I would characterize it as bragging but more talking crappie on a fishing board.

My whole intention is to make Rathbun a better fishery for myself and you, and the next generation. I am not as concerned about keeping the coordinates quiet, if revealing the coordinates is a cost of wanting to make Rathbun a better fishery well I would say that is a small price to pay. I hope to one day have more people participate in making our lakes better for everyone. I was truley embarrashed that I did not know the law here.

Man, don't feel bad about not knowing the law on this. Thanks to all of you once again for what you're doing. Wish I could put my own in. But just like perchjerker said, keep it on the down low and keep the GPS numbers to yourself. Plenty of folks will see you fishing your brush anyway and eventually check it for themselves. Really can't blame them, it becomes public structure after it leaves your boat.
I'd be looking too ya know!

By all means I'm not discing anyone.I just metioned that though there may be some as we call habitat enhancement going on we just dont publize it. There probably are some individuals who have dropped some sort of structure to benefit the crappie over the last 20 years Ive fished the lake.It is true that once a supposed brush pile would hit the water it becomes public, there is a honor creed when it comes to tournaments. The locals know who is who and for the most part come tourney time they leave them alone.Dont feel like we're knocking you . Just sometimes less said is better on a open forum.PJ

Yeah, I probably took it the wrong way. Your words are wise.

I will be at the lake Saturday and Sunday. Looking forward to being on the water.

bec no problem man. I think I figured you out bec from Albia recent transplant from FLA. correct?:)

BEC,

Looks like you got some great weather this weekend. Look forward to hearing your report.

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Originally Posted by prchjerker

bec no problem man. I think I figured you out bec from Albia recent transplant from FLA. correct?:)

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You are correct.:)

I noticed someone called you by your name in a thread a little while back.

How's things going? Hey, thanks again for your advice. I should have known, but it was a learning experience, ie. structure...