save the spawn?

I think the Corps is to be commended for not drawing down last year... this year it is a little earlier. Does everyone think they will hold at summer pool now to save the spawn?
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/677...lakelevels.jpg

They are already predicting that they are going to drop it. It's too early in the year to leave it at summer pool. One good stretch of spring rain will have it way too high if they don't.

They generally don't like to float the picnic tables at the campsites if they don't have to.

That will never be consideration

Pepper

I sent emails to a few of my TVA reservoir scheduling engineer contacts today regarding water levels and spawning fish. I did get a call back. As I expected, for now the USCOE is calling the shoots regarding water levels. Any time the Cairo Gauge on the Mississippi River is at or above 40, the USCOE controls what KY and Barkley lakes do regarding water levels and discharge. The USCOE is dealing with a bigger picture of water coming down the Mississippi and Ohio rivers, as well as the Cumberland and Tennessee drainages. The plan as it was explained to me was to hold the water until the Miss. river crest, possible Tuesday. Then once the river starts down, then the lakes would be lowered. Possibly back to the guide curve, which for the first of April is around 355.

I explained that would be bad news for spawning fish, especially with the warmer weather predicted for this week, which relates to water temp’s. increasing. If they were going to have to discharge, it would be best to do it early this week before the water temps warm up anymore. However, the best case scenario was to only discharge down to a water level no lower than 358. Then leave it stable, and lead right into summer pool.

The TVA engineer that I spoke with understood, and was going to talk with the USCOE to see what could be done. Hopefully I will get to talk with the USCOE tomorrow.

The one thing we have in our favor right now, is that the 10 day forecast for the Tennessee River drainage is somewhat dry.

Who knows, it could still snow in the middle of April, and water levels will not even be the issue then.

Stay optimistic.

Wow. Nobody could expect a better response and thank you for your efforts.

Brook

[quote=brookpe;1097121]Wow. Nobody could expect a better response and thank you for your efforts.

I agree, thank you for your effort Mr. Rister.

Thanks Paul. Got some info for ya.

I went today and worked my butt off for 17.

Got into the cleaning and was really suprized! :eek:Out of the 17 I cleaned all were Black females but 2. Just opposite of my trip Friday.

Water temp was about 54 and the water was pretty stained.

All were caught casting points. Fish were close to brush and about 5' to 6' deep. About where the winter pool line would be. Two different bays and 5 or 6 different points.

Hope that's not a bad sign!

Paul give these guys that email you done seen what they will do.

As he said in another thread. The TVA and USACOE are in the business of managing water, not fish.

That's why the lakes were built. Good fishing is just a fortunate side effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackrstackr

As he said in another thread. The TVA and USACOE are in the business of managing water, not fish.

That's why the lakes were built. Good fishing is just a fortunate side effect.

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yea I know i was mainly just picking on Paul I would say the more they herd from it the lower the water would go.

Thanks for making the call Paul. I remember going to a meeting a dozen years ago or more with TVA and Army Corp. at Marshall County High School. They were quick to point out to me, the other guides, and resort owners that the number one priority is flood control. I do understand that issue. It could potential mean millions in damage if left unchecked. However a major draw-down after warm weather this week may mean another rough spawn for the first wave of spawning crappie. I hope you are able to do some good!

Lyndon

Here is the Reservoir (water level) report I got today. This is TVA predictions for the next 7 days. This is with out any major rain event. I am hoping that once TVA takes back over control of the lake level they will try to keep the level close to 358. With the out flow being reduced, I hope that is their plan to hold as much water as possible. However for this time of year normal level would be closer to 355.

D A I L Y N A V I G A T I O N R E P O R T

This information is being supplied by the TVA and Nashville District
Corps of Engineers AND IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. Forecasts will be issued daily, or more often as conditions warrant. Headwater elevations are in feet above mean sea level, and are instantaneous midnight elevations. Outflows are daily average values in thousands of cubic feet per second. The minimum and maximum daily tailwater elevations are estimates of these values for the days indicated.
During hydro peaking operations, tailwater elevations will vary rapidly and may exceed the ranges indicated.

RESERVOIR FORECASTS - ISSUED BY RIVER SYSTEM OPERATIONS


03/31 04/01 04/02 04/03 04/04 04/05 04/06 04/07
2400 2400 2400 2400 2400 2400 2400 2400
Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun Mon Tue Wed
KENTUCKY--------------------------------------------------------------
El 359.5 359.4 359.1 358.8 358.4 358.0 357.9 357.7
TW max 320.5 320.3 320.1 319.7 319.2 319.2 318.9 318.8
TW min 320.5 320.3 320.1 319.7 319.2 319.2 318.9 318.8
Out 65.8 66.0 66.0 66.0 66.0 66.0 40.0 30.0

Thanks for the information Paul!

Lyndon

Thanks Paul.

If you look at what they did last year (high water until May 15th) is there anything in that curve that would have hurt last year's spawn?

Just interested in learning something.

Thanks

Fluctuating water levels and water temperature are both important during the spawning period, even more importantly is there timing. The ideal water temp which puts crappie in spawn mode is the mid 50's. When water temp reaches the upper 50's to low 60's the crappie will really start moving shallow to spawn. So last year we had high water, but the timing was off with water temp. The past several years we have had mid winters and early spring weather (warmer water temp earlier in the year). Last year water temps reached the upper 50's near the last week of March. This was just about the time there was a fast water level rise.

So, crappie move shallow to spawn. Why shallow... a few reasons, habitat such as button ball bushes and water willow. Crappie eggs are adhesive, and will be deposited on root hairs of the vegetation. As compared to bluegill which just make a bowl shape bed and lays their eggs in the middle of it. In the shallower water they also can reduce predation by other fish on the eggs. Up shallow they have less water behind them to protect the nest.

So, the males go in first to find a nest site, and fans it off to expose root hairs. Then he moves back out to find and entice a female to follow him back to the nest site. However the water has risen and the nest area is no longer shallow. Maybe he aborts the nest and starts a new nest up shallow. Maybe he tries to us that nest, but due to the deeper water other fish eat the eggs.

The eggs in a female are ripened by water temp, when they are ready - they are ready. If conditions change for nesting more of the eggs may over ripen - rotten eggs.

So ideally there should not be any water level fluctuations during spawning. There is probably a worst spawn when the water is falling during spawn. Or the water temp reached the ideal range, and then a cold front moves in for a week, and water temp drop out of range. But a quick water rise can also hurt.

There are other factors that affect the spawn. But that is my educated guess about water levels. There is some research that shows no matter what, crappie populations are cyclic and every few years there will be a good spawn, followed by a few years of poorer spawn. Some research indicates a 3 to 5 year cycle.

One last note, last year during May while doing some bass population sampling (electrofishing), we noted many crappie in water less than 18". The area we were in was Jacks Branch (Blood River). The crappie were in the middle of a large water willow bed that was under water. The water was so clear we could see the backs of fish as our boat slowly moved toward them. We shocked that area just for a moment to prove what we thought we were seeing, and an unbelievable number of crappie were there still spawning. Most likely males still guarding the nest. So this is where you get another factor that affects a spawn. Fish spawning late, means the young fish will be smaller going into the winter months. Smaller fish often have higher winter mortality. We have seen this with largemouth bass at KY Lake, so I would only assume it would hold true for crappie also.

Hope that helps.

Paul I want to thank you for getting more involved in the Ky. CDC forum even though you've taken a pretty good hammer'n at times, especially from me. :D This last post is great information!

I know you're a busy man and I hope you know how much we appreciate your contribution to the forum. It gives us sportsmen an idea of what's going on and how our $'s are being spent.

I might not always agree with everything you say, but I will listen and give it a fair evaluation based on my and other's experiences in the field.

I know that you guys base your decisions on scientific data. Sometimes that data can be sewed by variables that aren't recognized. By spending time on here with us and sharing information those variables have a better chance of being identified and taken into consideration which will improve the end product.

Over the years all over the nation it has been proved that the sportsmen have a huge impact on the success of any management/restoration program. We got the deer and turkey back and I'm sure by working together we can improve the crappie fishery.

Really, thanks for the input.

... you are certainly a welcome addition to the membership of Crappie.com ... and your participation in our discussions is enlightening & informative.

I extend a hand in gratitude, for all the hard work & concern shown by you & the KDFWR. Keep up the good work !!

... cp :cool: