Has anyone else heard that this is the last year that the manufactors can build 2-strokes? If so what about the E-Tec and Optimax?
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Has anyone else heard that this is the last year that the manufactors can build 2-strokes? If so what about the E-Tec and Optimax?
Someone is yanking your chain. Some of the newer motors run cleaner and quieter than a 4 stroke.
When I was looking at getting a new motor, I noticed on the Yamaha website that they have removed all information on 2-strokes. Interesting. Also, a couple of boat dealers I visited told me that they could not get any more Yamaha 2-strokes or hardly any other motor in a 2-stroke. I remember that EPA put a date in their regulations when 2 strokes could not be maufactured but I don't remember what that date was.
Limb Bream
I was told by a dealer that they couldn't get a Yamaha 50 hp 2s. I didn't ask about other sizes. I assumed that the shortage was on the 50's, maybe not.
I'll be glad when they quit making them and all the old ones die!
It came from 2 different dealers.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBNFSHN
Yea, the two strokes are bad for the water. Ever time you pour a gallon of oil in that 2 stroke motor it is like pouring a gallon of oil in the water. 6 gallons of gas 16oz of oil in the water. Have you ever run a 2 stroke for 15 min. in a big trash can full of water there will be oil all over the foot of the motor so bad you will think a seal is leaking. 4 stroke don't put much oil in the air or water. There more like a car motor. I wish my motors where 4 strokes, but I don't have the money to replace them. I guess I will have them till they die or I die. or the government makes me stop using them.
I am one of those who has a 2 stroke. If it were to die I would be in trouble as I cannot really afford to buy a new motor. For those who want them to die and go away I hope medical bills never force you to quit fishing.
December 1 was the cut off date for manufacturers to quit building(dirty) 2 strokes. What that means is for Mercury the 50ELPTO,90Elpto and the 150EFI engines went away. For yamaha it was thw 25, 50 90 and 115 carb motors.These engines can still be sold just not manufactured. I know alot of boat companies like Tracker bought warehouse full of them so you'll see them for some time to come.The optimax annd E-tec motors meet all the EPA requirements anf wont be going away for along time.One of the EPA new twists involve catalytic converter on four strokes to cut down pollution. tThis already has happened on stern drives Mercruiser engines in California, and out boards arent to far away.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by oldwun
Well said, the manufacture of many of them has stopped. I drove 3.5 hours to get a 2008 new 2009 motor, that was a 2 stroke. I do not care what anyone says. The 2 stroke with oil in the gas is the longest running motor ever. Weight to power the strongest. 79lb 10hp compared to 147lb 10hp 4 storke. No it will not ever run as smooth as a 4 stroke, or as quiet. But it will outrun them all. I still have a 1989 2 stroke and the compression is exactly perfect and it is 21 years old. I had a wizard 10 that would run at 10,000 rpm, over 30 mph with a 2 blade cupped prop. on the back of a sears 12' game fisher. but do I regret selling that one.
yea old airplanes are still running to. Oil in the gas is constant luberation.
Totally agree...have an etec 2 stroke, epa emissions compliant, European Union Emissons Compliant, California 3 star Emissons Compliant. These motors are not going anywhere soon. Use their high $ oil and am finding that I can get 50 hrs of run time on a gal of oil (90 hp). Been around both 2 and 4 stroke...4 stroke is just a "little" bit quieter than the 2. But not by much.....Quote:
Originally Posted by IBNFSHN
This will be Obama's next cash for clunkers. LOL
As long as parts are available I will be keeping two strokes in running condition for folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatwater
If they're the longest running motor ever... why would you even need spare parts???Quote:
Originally Posted by JLeus
I see and hear those 2 strokes crank up at the launch with a huge cloud of smoke that looks like an Iraqi suicide bomber just blew himself up and think "Our environment thanks you for that one Bubba":rolleyes:
... but if y'all enjoy breathing that smoke and listening to that racket...
Man I did not post this to start an argument. I have both a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCD
I can understand where you are coming from when you make those statements...but I know you would not say that if you have seen the new technology that newer 2 strokes have. Some time when your out and about look for a new etec....you will see a difference...I have had both and the technology now is far superior than what the old 2 strokes had. Seeing is believing....;)
I have seen and heard the new 2 strokes, and they're very good motors... but the 2 stroke manufacturers would never have bothered with the Research and Development that went into them had it not been for the "dirty 2 stroke" ban. This law has been on the books for 10 or more years but is just now starting to take effect.
As far as the dirty 2 strokes go, they will be around for quite a while to come. You just won't be able to buy a new one.
I wish they would come up with a perfume that smells like quicksilver 2 stroke smoke...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by GCD
a 4 stroke is an overpriced anchor. it's the worst thing that's happened to the marine industry. they cost way too much considering they have no power and are way too heavy. who decided anyway that 2 strokes were so bad for the environment? they've been around for decades and i've never heard of a fish kill or polluted water because of a 2 stroke outboard. it's all hogwash!
When i bought my new boat the shop mechanics told me to stay away from the 4 stroke engines. So i bought the 2-stroke mercury and so far would not have anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman1501
I've had both 2 strokes (various models) and (1) 4 stroke... I'll never go back to a 2 stroke after owning a 4 stroke!!!
Less noise, less emissions... what's not to love about a 4 stroke?!!!
... plus you don't have to worry about your oil pump going out and frying your motor like you do a 2 stroke!!!
4 STROKES RULE!!!
I usually don't agree with GCD:p but he is right on this one. I use my 4-stroke for pulling crank baits and a 2-stroke just can't do that aleast the older one.Quote:
Originally Posted by skintback
4 strokes are not more eco friendly. ALL 2 and 4 stroke motors have to meet the new EPA requirements. Some manufactures couldnt make that happen with their 2 stroke design, so they stopped producing them. Its that simple.
2 strokes that meet the new EPA requirements actually generate less pollution than a 4 stroke of the same hp. FACT!
2 strokes are used in more than just boats, they also power snowmobiles, motorcycles, and power the majority of vehicles in some Nations. 2 strokes arent going away, only the manufactures that couldnt make a design that met the new EPA requirements are going away. In fact the US automakers are looking at 2 strokes to provide power to modern vehicles to met federal EPA regulations on automobiles.
2 strokes last longer, generate less pollution, are lighter, cost less, and burn less gas. The only advantage to a 4 stroke is noise reduction, and that isnt by much.
I have a 2 stroke that's 53 years old and still runs like a champ. All motors need regular maintenance, and sometimes they need to be rebuilt. Only a fool runs them to total failure. Not sure about you, however my money tree hasn't dropped anything in a long time.
Yep,...the carbureted two strokes are gone as far as trying to find a brand new one. Unless a dealer has some left over,you might be able to find one,
but those pickings are getting very slim to no more. Yamaha and Mercury
no longer make carbureted two strokes per EPA regulations. I have heard some four strokes run and I have to say that I am mighty impressed with how quiet they are at idle. I will have a (Tohatsu built) Mercury 15 four stroke on
the new Lund A-14 I am waiting delivery on. No more mixing gas with oil and
no more headache producing two stroke fumes,...and no more clouds of blue smoke trailing behind ,either. Now,...if only Mercury would have brought the DFI Optimax motor down to 15 HP,I would have gone with an Optimax. But,
since they did not,...I 'll take their little 15 four stroke.
it would help keep our lakes and streams clean, but not everyone can afford a new four stroke. and not everyone would want one. in 2005 I bought a new nitro 640 lx with a mercury 60 hp four stroke. and it just bearley could get it up on plane. the boat is rated for a 90 hp. but a 90 hp four stroke weights almost 400 pounds. so the 60 hp four stroke wasn't much. took it back. replaced it with a 2006 mercury 2 stroke 90 hp. auto oiler. very little smoke, will jump up on plane and run 44 mph with a 19" pitch prop. the four strokes are to heavy and to weak. the only good thing about them, is they don't smoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by GCD
Hmmmm,...let's see here. Okay,boat rated for 90 HP,...you had a 60 HP on there. Friend,...you were underpowered to begin with and that is why theQuote:
Originally Posted by waterdog101
60 horse motor could barely plane the boat out. Even if the 90 horse four stroker was 400 lbs.,..you would have gotten it up on plane much better.
Question; Is that 90 horse two stroke an Optimax DFI motor,or one of the
older carbed two strokes with auto oil injection? If you get very little smoke
out of it,that tells me that it must be a 90 HP Optimax DFI motor,...but maybe
I am wrong on that.
You still have to dispose of the oil when you change it on a four stroke. How much of that oil gets disposed of properly? I have an Optimax 115. I have not seen one puff of smoke out of it when I crank it up. It is louder than the Mercury 60 hp four stroke I had on my 2006 boat but it is almost twice as large. My new Optimax 115 has a five year warranty also.
Bottem line is 4 strokes are heavier and don't run as fast when comparing the same hp, no one should even try to argue this... I have both and it's just not there with the 4 stroker...
got 6hp johnson,9.9 johnson,and a 15hp merc all 2 stroke and will keep until all parts are no longer possible.u have a good day!
my boat is only 16ft the max rating is 90 hp. so I thought the 60 hp 4 stroke would do the job. a 90 hp 4 stroke was way to heavy. it would have the front of my boat to high.but on the other hand, the 90 hp 2 stroke was much lighter. and worked perfect. and it's a carburetor 2 stroke. it's an auto oiler, it mixes the amount of oil to the gas as it need it. at idle the mix ratio is very low, so the smoke is very little. and at wot it mixes the oil ratio to 50;1 like the older 2 strokes had to be mixed at all times. it has more power than I need, and it does smoke a little. but very little. some times I don't even see any smoke, and that worries me. because I've always had 2 stroke motors and their was always plenty of smoke.:):)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundman A-14
I love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. They have eliminated that great smell with the Optimax and Etec. Oh well. Guess I will just fish.
Everything you said in your post is HOGWASHQuote:
Originally Posted by skintback
My brother has worked at a Yamaha dealership for 22 years. Here is a fact for you. 2 strokes do NOT last as long as 4 strokes. I think he is qualified to know a little something about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanr3
Carry a Weedeat with you when you go fishin'.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by c1bigocarp
2 strokes with proper maint. and good oil will last a long time.don`t know much about cost of rebuild 2 vs 4 stroke on boats ,but use to race fourwheelers and work at atv shop .when u had to completely go through a 4 stroke the cost was double and more parts for mechanic to screw up for future problems.
well,show me some documented facts where 2 strokes have caused major pollution. outboards have always been expensive and 4 strokes are even more so and hp for hp a 2 stroke will spank the 4 every time. i have a 60 oil injected,carburated 2 stroke yamaha and i've never seen any residue on the water and it very seldom smokes, that being said i will agree that there a lot of older 2 strokes that smoke and leave a film on the water but thats been going on for years and now all of a sudden it's "bad for the environment". nothing in my post was hogwash, it's simply the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by PIGINTHEPIGPEN
Im with ya, Skint. Yeah, the old ones did smoke bad sometimes, but what these 4-sroke fans dont realize, is what going to happen when these 4-strokes start getting as old as the older 2-strokes? What? Y'all have never seen a 4-stroke smoke? Plenty of cars and trucks aroung here that age has gotten, and yeah, then, they too will smoke. . . . and stink. . . .and pollute. . . . and when it comes rebuild time, id much rather be the 2-stroke owner :p . . . . just my .02 cents, though. . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by skintback
I wonder how many of those early 90 model 4 strokes are still out there running daily vs the thousands of 40+ year old 2 strokes that have never had anything more than the occasional carb cleaning done to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by PIGINTHEPIGPEN
Sounds familiar to me, We have the greatest motor (Country) in the world so come help me change it to something you don't want and if you don't like it we (all our cool aide drinkers) will help me jam it down your throat. Why can't people just let people live their lives the way they want to live them and stay out of other peoples business. But no they know more about what you want and need so just be quiet and do what we tell you to do. The 4 stroke people can have their motor but let us 2 stroke people fish in peace.