Another newbie question: finding the fish without electronics.

Hey all, I posted a few weeks back thanking everyone for helping me learn to catch my first mess of crappie. Since then I've been reading and returning to the water trying to sharpen my skills, but I've got to admit I've been stumped the past couple trips and could use some advice from the more experienced here.

How are you all locating the fish when they're deep above or in brushpiles without fish finders? Or do you?

I've read many of you posting saying they're 8-10' deep now around or in brush piles, but for the past several trips I've been unable to successfully locate any of these 10' or so fish schools on any of the Central Arkansas lakes. When the fall bite started and they were chasing the shad up into the creeks, I could manage to sit around the old creekbeds and catch plenty thanks to many of the tricks I read here.

But now that the temps are cooling off and they seem to be more submerged in the brushpiles, I'm having trouble finding them to hook. I also kayak fish so moving around a lot isn't an option - I can generally only cover about 5 miles on a good day.

So what's the trick, or am I just over thinking this? I see the fish attractors out on lakes like Overcup and Cargile, but nothing I throw near them works. Is it literally sitting on top of the brush and dropping in the jigs or minnows? Those can't be 10' deep if they're exposed above the water, can they?

Thanks in advance - I really appreciate all the posts and information you all write here. Really helps me out in trying to learn this craft.

I hope somebody answers you because I am curious myself... I don't have any electronics and just "old-school" it... I will go to known brush piles or structure but otherwise I am lost...

Just get you some good line set ride on top of them go right down in the brush. They might be right on the bottom no telling where they'll you just have to try different depths, but those treetops in overcup, best I can remember is in about 10 or 12 foot of water. Good luck

Lately in Sippi, the fish have been in 10-20 feet of water, but they have only been 3-6 feet deep. I think here, with the colder weather, the surface is warmer than the deeper water, and the bait is higher in the column because of that. JMO