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The depth reading that you show on a 2d HB...... is it the average depth within the sonar cone, a single point depth, the shallowest sonar reading or the deepest reading. When stationary with the sonar cone covering a steep drop-off (say a 1:1 slope), what kind of bottom profile do you see.
This is the only info I can find at this time...
Vexilar Tips and Articles
I do not know if HB would have different technologies than this....
Maybe Greg can add info here...
Rickie
You usually get a 33% coverage with 2d sonar in relation to depth. So, in 12ft of water you would get about a 4ft diameter cone at the bottom.
I am not 100% sure how we mark the bottom and if I knew the particulars I would not be able to say – but I don’t so what I say here is my own $0.02. I know that it could be the nearest point to the transducer but we also look at the returned signal and use algorithms to determine the actual bottom. Example: if there was a softer sonar return from say 9.6 feet deep and a stronger one at 10.0 feet deep, we may display the water depth as 10.0 feet deep while showing the weaker sonar return level from 9.6 to 10.0 feet deep. In the image off of the Vexilar web site; it could be possible to display the fish shown in what they label as the “DEAD ZONE”. This could happen if the fish reflect more sonar back to the unit than the slope does. The sonar returns from the fish would than be shown along with the weaker sonar returns from the slope. To simplify things though we can assume (uh oh!) that the unit would show the shallower sonar return as the bottom and not show the fish at all.
For your drop off you would see a thicker sonar return from the bottom with (possibly) the shallowest point being displayed as the digital depth readout. On a flatter bottom that had the same depth (and bottom composition) the same sonar return for the bottom reading would be thinner but would have a better chance of showing a second (or more) sonar return.
This would be true of a 20 degree sonar beam, but that really depends on the actual size and shape of the side lobes as well as at what measurement point (db or decibel) that the sonar beam was actually spec’d at and how sensitive the sonar receiver is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superx10
Units that have a more sensitive receiver can actually receive sonar returns from an area that is wider than the specified area. I would guess that this is the majority of the middle to high end sonar units sold today. Think of this as trying to see at night with a flashlight and slipping on a pair of light intensifying glasses. With or without the glasses the same light source is used, yet you can see farther and over a wider area with the glasses on (more sensitivity to light).
You can use a transducer that is spec’d at the -3db point and yet find out the actual area of coverage (sometimes called “effective coverage area”) is far beyond that -3db point (same goes for transducers spec’d at the -6db point). Humminbird uses the much wider -10db point as it is a more realistic measurement point. It closer approximates that area that is actually shown on the display of the sonar unit. So a 20 degree sonar beam measured at the -3db point is wider than a 20 degree sonar beam measured at the -10db point (I think that it would be a 24 degree beam at -10db). So your area of coverage would be closer to 0.43 X water depth versus 0.35 X water depth for the 20 degree beam. Not much of a difference in that example but it does not take into account those side lobes like are shown in the Vexilar information which are more prevalent at shallow water depths (the sonar beam shape does not change shape due to water depth). Humminbird tries to minimize these side lobes. In my opinion; manufactures that spec their transducers at a narrow db point and yet advertise that their transducer beams cover some huge area are playing numbers games with John Q. Public. Sorry, had to get up my soapbox there for a minute. So maybe that 20 degree beam is covering a 4 foot diameter area while you are in 12 feet of water and maybe it isn’t!
Just some food for thought…
Thanks, Greg..... that's a lot of food for my poor old brain to think on!! The db levels you are talking about.... are they the strength of return echos? Still hard for me to conceptualize. Thanks for the link, Rickie!
See.. I told ya guys...
Dat Greg guy... Him iz got "smarticals"....:)
No wonder HB has him on their payroll...
Rickie
“Smarticals” LOL!
The decibel is the unit of measurement that is used to express the sound pressure level of the sonar (strength of the sonar whether you are talking about the transmitted sonar or the returned echoes). This is like using Lux or candlepower to measure the amount of light from a flashlight. To advertise specifications about that flashlight, you have to pick some point to measure that flashlight beam width at. Some would use the half power point (which is -3db for sonar). You than measure the width of the flashlight beam and calculate the angle. This would be the beam width of the flashlight beam at the point that the light on the outside of the beam is half as bright as it is in the very center of the flashlight beam (the very center being the brightest part of the flashlight beam). The problem with this is that you can see objects in the area that has less than half the brightness of the center beam, so shouldn’t you use a more realistic measurement point? Basically this is what Humminbird does with our sonar. Instead of using the half power point we use one that we feel more accurately reflects what you are seeing on the screen of your fish finder unit.
Hope that helps clear it up for you Cache22.