CJ Brown 2018

Even with people joking about today's weather forecasts, the weather prediction is actually very reliable, especially on amounts of precipitation.
The COE is using rules of engagement from the 1950's....And the dumbasses don't have to dump water and fish from the bottom gates, to regulate normal outflow when heavy precipitation is not called for.
That lake can almost grow by another 1/3rd at summer pool before it ever starts to rise on the dam tower. I've fished from the breaker walls when they were inches from being underwater...I've fished in the west bank woods, and from the flooded campgrounds...and it still never came close to rising on the main dam or came over the Emergency overflow.
I'm just asking for a common sense approach...just alittle common sense.

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Originally Posted by INTIMIDATOR

Went out this morning from 7:30am until 10:30am...I was shocked!!!
I'll save my COE rant for those that care, but those f*&%$#@×+#$%^, dropped the lake from Summer pool back again to Winter pool.
The water was just rolling out still from the lower gates. I'm sorry but there's no forecast for any hurricanes or 40 days and 40 nights of rain. Idiots!
We worked hard to build this fishery and those idiots don't even have the courtesy to use the top gates!
Ended up going back to my early spring pattern, and went to my underwater island. Ended up with 13 legal Walleye, and 5 Nice Crappie.
I took 6 twenty inchers, and put 2 smaller and the biggest ones back...one was a 27 that went back in.
All has big shad in their bellies...but no eggs!
So far they like that New 4 inch Perch with Jeff's pink head.
Hopefully the COE decides to put the plug in for the WB spawn....IDIOTS!

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I love it when you talk dirty like that. It really turns me on. now all ineed is for someone to blow in my ear. cjp
wha is common sence

I've had the same rant for years. In 44 years or so that lake has NEVER gone over the spillway to my knowledge. And... if it did, so what? It would simply take a different path into the same creek and maybe flood a meadow which would drain quickly. Those COE guys think it is ONLY a flood control reservoir and don't give two hoots about whether there is a single fish in the thing. I weep for the Walleyes that have been flushed only to end up in the Ohio River.

[B]"Those COE guys think it is ONLY a flood control reservoir"[/B]

It's all perspective...
You guys who fish CJ are lucky. If that were my home lake I would never complain. That is the most stable lake in the area that isn't controlled by a spillway and from the pics I've seen on here it doesn't mud up like the rest of these lakes. I don't study CJ water levels daily but I never see the levels vary more than a couple of feet one way or the other.

EF was up 34' earlier this year and hasn't had stable water for 2 months with levels often changing 2'-4' daily. Same thing, CC has been a yo-yo since all the rain and flooding earlier this year but to a lesser degree than EF. Paint creek is the area winner with rises over 40' and daily changes of +5' with a 7000cfs out flow, I bet they lost a few fish. Most of the other COE lakes have been a mess since late Feb or early March.

I don't complain how the COE manages their water levels, after all it is there lake and I'm not knowledgeable enough to second guess them. One thing that does irk me is we have a new COE guy down here at EF and he locks the gate to the ramp for even minor water level fluctuations.

Yes, we are lucky to have CJ, but it is alot different than CC or EF.
It's not nearly as deep as the other 2, so fluctuations in water levels at key times really affect it and the fishery.
CJ doesn't muddy due to its gravel and rock base, and the wetlands and marsh north of it.
It is also one of the few Reservoirs that was bulldozed almost clean...the structure that remained was just natural creekbeds, some foundations, and humps from roadbeds, gravel pits, ponds, etc.
CJ is pretty much a barren cereal bowl compared to other reservoirs.
It was chosen as a brood lake for Walleye due to the gravel, creek beds, and creeks.
For the fishermen of CJ...the lack of cover stacked the Walleye up for easy pickin's in the humps. While it produced 50 Walleye days and 100's upon 100's of fish caught per person every year, the population swings could be massive with no spawns or low stocking numbers.
With a huge Bass, Channel Cat, Crappie, and WB populations, the baitfish population would swing wildly also.
With a shrinking Perch, and natural minnow population and huge Shad kills during the early 2000's, the lake was slowly dying.
The ODNR was going to pull the Walleye program due to lack of Walleye forage.
Lowell and I knew each other from fishing CJ...then hurricane Ike hit, we had trees down everywhere. We talked about using all that wood for fish cover.
Lowell took the legal way and built a relationship with the ODNR, COE, and Park MGMT, and started the legal drops to help the baitfish population. Alot of laydowns, Christmas trees, etc.
Several of us went a different route...after a couple years we all hooked up...and some are still active!
CJ flourished...the baitfish population rebounded, baitfish spawns were fantastic....and with the abundant food supply, the predators rebounded.
Cover was added everywhere except old structure areas....this moved fish into other areas and away from humps and other places th h er y stacked up, so the overall lake would be healthy, and we could maximize the fish holding capacity of CJ. This would benefit the entire fishery instead of the fishermen at that time...we figured after time the fishermen would benefit from the extra fish holding capacity.

Where the COE screws things up, is not filling CJ to summer pool during spawns and leaving it there.
At Winter pool, there is BARELY any water in North Buck Creek....at Summer pool the creek is high. Walleye, WB, and others, use the creek to spawn.
So just before spawns this year, the lake was filling up, and the creek was rising....the Walleye were at the islands at the mouth.
And the dumbasses dropped the level below winter pool....No Walleye spawn!
Now the plug should really be in, and they are again dumping water, just before the WB spawn.

CJ has a 2 gate system...the upper gates are smaller and don't affect fish. The lower gates are huge and pump everything out of the lake.
The stupid bastards could use the uppers until an emergency situation occurs...but I think they believe CJ is a hatchery for the Ohio river, and they flush all the fish they can. They even flushed water when the OHIO river was flooding.

I sat in enough meetings with the COE and they will not try to comprehend anything...the rules of engagement are from the 1950's water management and they will die before adapting.

All lakes in Ohio are suffering from fishing pressure, a little common sense by the dinosaur COE, would go a long way to help Ohio's fisheries.

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Originally Posted by crappiemax

[B]"Those COE guys think it is ONLY a flood control reservoir"[/B]

It's all perspective...
You guys who fish CJ are lucky. If that were my home lake I would never complain. That is the most stable lake in the area that isn't controlled by a spillway and from the pics I've seen on here it doesn't mud up like the rest of these lakes. I don't study CJ water levels daily but I never see the levels vary more than a couple of feet one way or the other.

EF was up 34' earlier this year and hasn't had stable water for 2 months with levels often changing 2'-4' daily. Same thing, CC has been a yo-yo since all the rain and flooding earlier this year but to a lesser degree than EF. Paint creek is the area winner with rises over 40' and daily changes of +5' with a 7000cfs out flow, I bet they lost a few fish. Most of the other COE lakes have been a mess since late Feb or early March.

I don't complain how the COE manages their water levels, after all it is there lake and I'm not knowledgeable enough to second guess them. One thing that does irk me is we have a new COE guy down here at EF and he locks the gate to the ramp for even minor water level fluctuations.

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I fish paint creek from November thru March every year for Crappie. I love it when they drop to winter pool and have lots of access from the bank. I have fished it when I would have to move every half hour while the water rose in the lake and have been there a few hours in a day and watched it come up several feet. Same when they pull the plug and it drops. I have very good luck on crappie there and the size of the fish also. Yes I would agree that the guys fishing CJ are very lucky. I dont take it to personal when Paint creek rises over 20' overnight even though I had the day off to fish. I know what the lake was designed for and it was not fishing. I used to think they could care less about the fisher man, and I think thats true, They really could care less and why would they to start with.

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Originally Posted by glasseyes

I fish paint creek from November thru March every year for Crappie. I love it when they drop to winter pool and have lots of access from the bank. I have fished it when I would have to move every half hour while the water rose in the lake and have been there a few hours in a day and watched it come up several feet. Same when they pull the plug and it drops. I have very good luck on crappie there and the size of the fish also. Yes I would agree that the guys fishing CJ are very lucky. I dont take it to personal when Paint creek rises over 20' overnight even though I had the day off to fish. I know what the lake was designed for and it was not fishing. I used to think they could care less about the fisher man, and I think thats true, They really could care less and why would they to start with.

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I agree with what you are saying glasseyes. My point was that the guys who fish CJ are very lucky to have such relatively stable conditions and when I see them complain about those slight variations they have up there on occasions I think I sure wish these other lakes would be that stable. Let's face it these are flood control lakes and if it wasn't for the COE, these lakes wouldn't exist at all. I like fishing these lakes at winter pool myself and I try to make it to Paint Creek at least a few times every year but since I bring my boat I like to wait until the lake stabilizes a little.

We are lucky to have only "Slight" variations in water depth...a 4 foot change in a 20ft lake is pretty much the same as a 20 foot change in a 100 foot lake.
Changes in a Walleye brood lake can make or break it, especially at the wrong times.
CJ is one of eight brood lakes in Ohio, they have been chosen to supply Purebred Walleye Eggs and Milt for Lake Erie, Ohio Brood lake Stocking progams, and Saugeye stocking in other Ohio lakes.
Quite a few of us have spent the better part of 13 years to keep the lake healthy and stabilized.
The ODNR wanted this...so did the COE.
Brood lakes get 100 fingerlings per acre yearly. Less than 3% of those fingerlings make it to a legal 15 inch fish.
Some years when harvest and growing conditions are good the brood lakes can get double, or if harvest is not good, they get less.
Walleye are grown in outdoor ponds, and they are ravenous. Once they get to fingerling size the weather has to be perfect for bugs to hatch and fall into the ponds...if not, the Walleye cannibalize each other. If you get bad weather in Spring they die. The ODNR spends huge money to raise the Walleye and keep the program going. Keeping Erie productive and pure is the number 1 reason...that is how much money Erie provides for Ohio and they will do whatever to keep it healthy.
When they drop the water level at or below winter pool in the Spring, especially when the plug should be in, it does not allow the Gators to get up in the creeks to spawn and supplement what is stocked. Same with feeder carp, WB, and other baitfish.
Springfield and CJ has not been close to flooding in my lifetime, and with the COE using outdated guidelines, they could really help CJ even more with a smidgen more common sense.
Oh, and they already missed this years spawn...the creeks were all low, since the COE up here likes flooding you guys to the South, by dumping water into the Mad River when you are flooded.

I'm hungry, lets go eat.
cjp

[QUOTE=cjpolecat;3618251]I'm hungry, lets go eat.
cjp[/QUOTE

Hold on till May , As breakfast sound good then I'LL be back as the weather has been difficult down here as well.