Warnings from the past....

[Cane Pole]

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato

"In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
Mark Twain

"Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

[Billbob]

true

[Lowellhturner]

Cincinnatius- the ultimate citizen, soldier AND the perfect politican...

[Cane Pole]

Cincinnatius- the ultimate citizen, soldier AND the perfect politican...

You must voted for him. I didn't.

[LBM]

Yes the wisdom from the past is absolutely amazing. Our founders were very leery of Democracies based on what was studied during their age. Something completely ignored in today's standards of what is considered important in historical studies.

This is a 44 minutes video lecture from Hillsdale College's week four lecture from their free online course titled History 101. At the 29 minute mark it starts getting into Plato's views on democratic politics and the class warfare practiced them and just how eerily it matches what is going on with our messianic leader today. After about a couple minuets into the video (better yet I think you will find the first 5 minutes somewhat interesting, I sure did) use your cursor to drag the little circle on the video time indicator bar out to the 29 minuet mark to hear the part I find really fascinating. Or listen to it all if you are so inclined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...v=ta7uVdy5DE0#!

Enjoy

[Lowellhturner]

LBM, other than the "classic' Greeks, WHAT OTHER "democracies' are they refering to ? I understand the burning desire of many people tp return to a "PURE" Republic, ie, ONLY a VERY LIMITED section of the population being ALLOWED the RIGHT to VOTE (let`s say maybe only LAND OWNING WELL OFF white Anglo Saxon Protestant MALES ) thus once again concentrating almost all real POLITICAL ( and ECONOMIC ) power into the hands of the minority, and perhaps the origional Founding Fathers would be absolutely AGHAST at the expansion of the right to vote as well as the now REAL opportunity of "upward mobility" for ALL Americans, but that is the situation we now deal with, for better or worse. Unfortunately, due to mostly base human nature, most "pure" republics have ultimately DEVOLVED into olegachies or out right dictatorships. Laws seem to ultimately be no defense against unethical power hungry individuals or groups who feel that IF they CAN seize absolute power, then they DESERVE it. (GREED and MEGLA MANIA run DEEP.) A DEMOCRATIC Republic has BUILT IN incentives and hopefully checks and balences to allow the population threatened directly to REMOVE such individuals and groups before they can succeed. And often it is the "have nots" with the LEAST to lose who will fight HARDEST to attempt to "maintain the status quo"...because they KNOW where the next rung down the "social ladder" is for them. Care to guess where that is? No, we ain`t going BACKWARDS...

[Lowellhturner]

Yes, old Ben Franklin had it right: "In a society where some have NO rights, presently NONE SHALL..."

[fishingpox]

LT, Plato believed in a lot of what you are saying . I so as well. Not every moron should have the right to vote.

[fishingpox]

Another little tidbit I ran across in Plato's writings.

From Plato’s book:
"Won't he smile in welcome at anyone he meets, saying that he's no tyrant,
making all sorts of promises both in public and in private, freeing the people
from debt, redistributing land to them, his followers, and pretending to be
gracious and gentle to all?"
However after a series of unpopular actions, including stirring up a war, the
leader begins to alienate some of his most ardent advisers who begin to voice
their misgivings in private. Following a purge of these advisors the tyrant attracts
some of the worst elements of the state to help him rule. As the citizens grow
weary of his tenure the tyrant chooses to attract foreigners to resupply his
dwindling bodyguards. The citizens finally decide they've had enough and begin
to discuss rebellion.
At this point in the story the student asks his teacher incredulously:
"What do you mean? Will the tyrant dare to use violence against [the
people] imprison or to hit [them] if [they] don't obey? The teacher answers,
"Yes - once he's taken away [the people's] weapons."

[deathb4disco]

Another little tidbit I ran across in Plato's writings.

From Plato’s book:
"Won't he smile in welcome at anyone he meets, saying that he's no tyrant,
making all sorts of promises both in public and in private, freeing the people
from debt, redistributing land to them, his followers, and pretending to be
gracious and gentle to all?"

"Your murderers come with smiles. They come as your friends." - Goodfellas