Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Cane Pole

Here are the real murderers. Close to a million per year. CDC report. Somewhat ok. Coat hangers responsible for more mass murders than guns.
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2009


Murder Chart

How many abortions are performed at each stage of pregnancy?

The following table lists both the percentage of abortions performed during various stages of pregnancy, along with the total yearly abortions at each stage, based on a total of 1.2 million abortions per year.

Gestational Age	Percentage	Yearly Total
Less than 9 weeks	61.8%	749,232
9-10 weeks	17.1%	207,312
11-12 weeks	9.1%	110,324
13-15 weeks	6.6%	80,015
16-20 weeks	3.8%	46,069
21+ weeks	1.5%	18,185

Source: Guttmacher Institute, 2011, August. Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States. [PDF]




Definition of HOMICIDE

1
: a person who kills another

2
: a killing of one human being by another


"By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception." Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic

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Sorry Cane Pole but you are off topic for the following reason:

The 1973 Supreme Court defined first trimester abortion as not criminal and there for not criminally homocide.

BTW not only is life present from conception, it is present before conception and must be from both parents or there is no conception. Life does not begin at conception in any case, it continues through it.

The real question is where does that life begin to accumulate a unique personhood enough to enable society to begin to assign it rights, a process that does not actually complete until decades later anyway. Western society for millenia has assigned the point of actual right accumulation to start at birth, with some additional protections prior to that as successful delivery becomes more and more likely. But that is a subject for another thread, too.

FWIW I have no problem with the moderators declaring both of our posts on this to be off topic and pull them. In fact they should and warn us both. The actual issue at hand is an important one in its own right and should not be sidetracked.

Here the question is gun control, and not even absolute one way or the other, but rather how much and which firearms are to be included or require modification and in which ways and what reasons for whatever degree in either direction. By itself it is a wide open and very controversial issue and we need to remain on topic, if there is to be any progress here or anywhere else.

Comment about the drunk driver stats...

Not picking apart the stats but simply asking the question of why do we have a 50% decrease in fatalities since the 80's? Two reasons...every car now has air bags and it was federally mandated for everyone to wear seat belts.

If we applied the same safety measures towards guns then stores should only sell rubber bullets and everyone should be federally mandated to wear bullet proof vests. What would those gun fatality stats show... I know it is extreme but I had to throw something out there to be sarcastic.

I feel quite sure that one day we will need bullet proof vests. Literally

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Originally Posted by gijimbo

Comment about the drunk driver stats...

Not picking apart the stats but simply asking the question of why do we have a 50% decrease in fatalities since the 80's? Two reasons...every car now has air bags and it was federally mandated for everyone to wear seat belts.

If we applied the same safety measures towards guns then stores should only sell rubber bullets and everyone should be federally mandated to wear bullet proof vests. What would those gun fatality stats show... I know it is extreme but I had to throw something out there to be sarcastic.

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I do not see the need to ban private ownership of firearms whether for sport shooting, hunting or for self protection. I also do not see the problem with licensing each one for particular purposes nor for limiting magazine or clip capacity in part depending on the use intended. The government already knows who has most of the non-criminal firearms in this country and by any kind of sophisticated public Internet search can actually identify who has purchased or received what for modification with that giving grounds for ATF search warrants simply on that basis. Anybody with a conceal/carry permit is automatically identifiable.

I do not see the big deal over permanent semi-automatic guns either, like the so called assault rifles. All they really are is nothing more than a modified copy of military weapons that are designed to be rugged, accurate and dependable, the same qualities that would make them good choices for private purchases. I do have a very big problem with large capacity clips and conversion kits that change them to automatic fire. There is no need for them in any private issue, they are banned for hunting already in nearly every state, and are actually in the way for most pure target shooting.

Most importantly however is that there are some individuals in this country who should not under any circumstances have access to firearms, but sorting them out from the rest of us with legitimate purposes is going to be a very difficult task. Most of the damage those persons cause come from a small group of mostly adolescent and young men who are both the most common violators and the most common victims, with the worst cases generally being suicides planned to have dramatic impacts on innocent strangers.

That's where I would start to deal with gun crime, and those have to be caught ahead of time, since the worst of them are already planning not to be taken alive in the first place; so penalties for commission are irrelevant to them. Guns are already the prime tool in most suicides anyway, whether or not someone else is killed first.

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Originally Posted by fishingpox

I feel quite sure that one day we will need bullet proof vests. Literally

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That aint gonna help you if the shooter is a good shot.

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Originally Posted by jeepguyjames

judging by your post my guess is you have never fired a nice so called "assault rifle" IE an AR-15.........an AR is an extreemly fun firearm to target shoot with, reasonalbe as far as ammo cost to shoot, zero recoil, an extreemly accurate.......has nothing to do with anything other than the fun factor for the vast majority of folks who own them........much like a 1911 Kimber, or a Colt python, if you havent fired one you wouldnt understand

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This....Yes

Excellent point Cane Pole. +/- 3,500 babies are murdered every day in the U.S. through abortion (legally) and no one bats an eye. Where is the media on this?

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Originally Posted by fishingpox

I feel quite sure that one day we will need bullet proof vests. Literally

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According to all the data I see, the opposite is true, with self-protection actually becoming less necessary in most areas. There are some exceptions, including areas with high levels of gang activity, but that is mostly urban and residents generally identify those areas pretty easily and can stay out of them. That is called street smarts and you pick that up pretty quickly in the city. Those who live there but are not involved tend to develop a sort of radar and keep their heads down when something is afoot.

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Originally Posted by no1son

Sorry Cane Pole but you are off topic for the following reason:

The 1973 Supreme Court defined first trimester abortion as not criminal and there for not criminally homocide.

BTW not only is life present from conception, it is present before conception and must be from both parents or there is no conception. Life does not begin at conception in any case, it continues through it.





The real question is where does that life begin to accumulate a unique personhood enough to enable society to begin to assign it rights, a process that does not actually complete until decades later anyway. Western society for millenia has assigned the point of actual right accumulation to start at birth, with some additional protections prior to that as successful delivery becomes more and more likely. But that is a subject for another thread, too.

FWIW I have no problem with the moderators declaring both of our posts on this to be off topic and pull them. In fact they should and warn us both. The actual issue at hand is an important one in its own right and should not be sidetracked.

Here the question is gun control, and not even absolute one way or the other, but rather how much and which firearms are to be included or require modification and in which ways and what reasons for whatever degree in either direction. By itself it is a wide open and very controversial issue and we need to remain on topic, if there is to be any progress here or anywhere else.

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The supreme court ain't God. God said "Thou shall not kill". Some folks seem to always leave out facts.

I started this thread and I take it where I so desire.

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Originally Posted by fishingpox

I think one needs to read on what classifies a gun as an assault weapon.

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EXACTLY !!! .... those guns being used, for these mass killings, are semi-automatics. An assault rifle has the option to be semi-auto or auto. The rifles are just designed to LOOK like an assault rifle ... not operate as one.
The mass murdering whacko's could have just as easily packed in a semi-automatic hand gun & a couple of pockets full of loaded clips ... and still done the same damage. No "sane" person does these types of things, so it wouldn't matter if they couldn't purchase or steal a gun ... they'd just use some other type of weapon.

... cp :kewl