Gill Nets In Kentucky and Barkley lakes

[prister]

I have read a thread below about anglers concerns for gill nets in the lakes. Here is my reply.

Concerned Anglers

I appreciate your concerns, and would like to explain our reasons for our decision to allow commercial harvest of rough fish through March 31 and give you more detail concerning the fishermen’s affects on crappie numbers in the Kentucky and Barkley lakes.

There have been several studies that evaluated the potential catch of sportfish in gill nets. One particular study was actually conducted on Kentucky Lake in 1989. In this study, almost 39,000 feet of gill nets were examined. The results indicated that 63 crappie were caught, along with 9 black bass, a few bluegill, and striped bass. The most often caught sport fish was sauger. Of these nets, all sizes (bar mesh size) were considered; 3 inches to 6 inches. Of the crappie caught, 100% of them came from nets with a bar mesh that was 3 to 4 inches. At Kentucky Lake, most commercial anglers are using 5 to 6 inch nets since they are fishing for buffalo and paddlefish this time of the year. We have a regulation that limits the size of mesh they can use for this reason. If they set their net out and leave it over night, the minimum mesh they can use is 4 ½ inch. So, we are not disputing the fact that some crappies are caught and incidentally killed in the fishermen’s nets, but our data is clear that netting is not a major source of mortality to their populations. In fact, it is insignificant when factored into the total mortality rates of crappie in the two lakes.

Commercial gill netting in these lakes has been going on for decades, even when the crappie populations were thriving. As I indicated previously, we limit the size gear they can use explicitly to avoid the sport fish getting caught. We also limit their season (November to-March) to avoid angler conflicts; and have a regulation that limits the number of licenses (25) we sell to commercial anglers that fish at Kentucky and Barkley lakes. More than likely they are never all fishing at the same time, let alone in the same area. Additionally, we believe commercial anglers are helping improve the sport fishery. They are reducing the biomass of rough fish from the lakes. Without commercial fishing, the rough fish would have no predator, and their populations would multiply. Eventually too many rough fish could negatively impact the sport fishery. I have included a few photos of a recent commercial fisherman’s catch. These are Asian carp (bighead and silver carp). We occasionally ride along with commercial anglers to monitor their catch. These were caught just last week in Lake Barkley. Without the commercial fisherman, the Asian carp have the potential to devastate the lakes. This particular angler that we rode with the other day and his son had out 63 nets, which was about 11,025 feet. They caught 39 paddlefish, about 3,100 pounds of buffalo, a few common carp and gar, two striped bass, one largemouth bass and around 7,000 pounds of Asian carp. On average these carp weighed 20 pounds, but they had some as large as 70 pounds. The Asian carp are here in the lakes and we are observing their numbers increase each year. Right now the commercial anglers and the bow fisherman are the only ones that are taking them. I repeat, it is increasingly important that the Asian carps and other rough fish continue to be removed; especially the Asian carps. We have never needed the commercial fishermen more for this, because without their removal, the Asian carp will continue to increase in numbers until there will be no food for any sport fish in the lakes.



The decline in the crappie population is mainly caused by some poor year classes. This means conditions (usually water levels) were not ideal when spawning was occurring. Also, there is likely already an impact from the Asian carps since there are so many of them, and they eat the same food that young crappie and all young sport fish eat. There are also a few other environmental factors that affect crappie, but, I assure you that the decline is not due to gill nets. The nets can not be set after March, and crappie spawn mostly in mid April in these two lakes. So again, the netting is not decreasing spawning levels in the lakes.

We conduct sampling each spring and fall to evaluate the crappie populations at Kentucky and Barkley lakes. In the late 80’s, studies indicated a declining crappie population, thought to be due to drought conditions, and therefore we reduced the limit from 60 to 30. Once we observed a good year class (1989), to protect it, we implemented a 10-inch minimum length limit. The anglers liked this size limit so much that we have left it in place. In recent years we have been monitoring a declining population of crappie; therefore we reduced the limit to 20. To determine if we can help supplement these poor year classes, we plan to stock white crappie in Blood River and Little River for three years. Last fall was the first year of the stocking. We plan to evaluate these stockings and see if they help during the current crappie depression we are in. We are also observing more black crappie as compared to a decade ago. This change from a mostly white crappie fishery to black crappie is thought to be related to environmental changes (water clarity) in the lake, and has occurred throughout the crappie’s range.

One comment that was made regarded nets blocking the bays. The net mesh is big enough that crappie movement is not stopped, they should be able to pass through it, but could require that crappie swim over, under, or around the net. We did a telemetry study a few years ago with crappie. This study looked at the movement of crappie. We did this by placing transmitters in 60 crappie, and tracking their movement. One study was conducted in Blood River and the other in Sledd Creek at Kentucky Lake. At Blood River, none of the tagged crappie ever left the embayment. At Sledd Creek only a few crappie left the embayment. So the thought that nets might be blocking off crappie getting into these embayments is incorrect. Crappie rarely leave the embayments.

One comment was made that a commercial angler had several crappie and other sport fish lying in the bottom of his boat. I have explained how the nets rarely catch sport fish, but it is possible. If they had them in their boat, then it was illegal. The penalty if caught is fines, loss of gear, and loss of their commercial license. Commercial fishing is how most of these anglers make a living, so we believe that they would not risk their livelihood to keep a few crappie.

Another comment indicated that you hit a gill net with your boat prop. By regulation, the nets are supposed to be three feet under the water to avoid this conflict. So technically the net was illegal and should have been reported at that time. You should call 1-800-25ALERT.

I talked with one of our conservation officers on Thursday about these concerns of netting in Blood River. This officer was aware of the commercial anglers fishing there because he had checked them on multiple occasions the past few weeks. When he checked them they were completely legal; right mesh sizes, tagged gear, commercial licenses, no sport fish, nets 3 feet below the surface.

So again I appreciate you concerns, but rest assured we are closely monitoring these fisheries. The commercial anglers are needed to help reduce the numbers of rough fish in the lakes. We have set the regulations that should adequately control their fishing and catch. We understand that there will always be angler conflicts, and we will do our best to minimize what we can. However, these are public resources. The user conflicts are endless from the jet skis, to sport fishermen, to commercial anglers, and dock owners. The declining crappie populations are caused more by environmental affects and possibly the overabundance of invasive species such as the Asian carps. We will continue to work with the US Corp of Engineers and Tennessee Valley Authority on fluctuating water levels during the spring. But, they quickly remind us that these lakes were built for flood control, hydropower and navigation. We have set crappie regulations that should reduce overharvest. We are experimenting with stocking crappie to hopefully help supplement the populations when spawns are poor, and with the help of commercial fishermen, we hope to reduce the number of rough and exotic species in the lakes. I hope this clears up your issues about commercial fishing and its interaction with sport fish and other anglers.

If you wish to discuss these issues further, I will be glad to talk with you.

[JTMavs]

Thnaks for taking the time to explain the reasons in detail. I can attest to the problem of the Asian Carp as I live by the Illinois river and it is full of them! The only problem I see with the nets is having them in the bays. Thanks again for the explanation!

[Huck Finn]

Mr. Prister, appreciate your response. The ability of the commercial fishermen to control the Asain carp population is well worth sacrificing a few game fish. Are there any measures to implement a market for the Asain carp in West Ky (ex. chicken feed or fertilizer)? Sure would be nice to see their #s decline, especially on the Rivers. One day last year, while fishing in Smithland Pool seven silver carp jumped in my boat.

Mr. Prister thanks for all the hard work you and your fellow companions do to keep the rivers and lakes as healthy as possible. One last thing, I want to give you all a big atta boy for the rockfish and hybrids that have been stocked in our rivers. The rockfish have provided many wonderful experinces for my family and friends, Thank You.

[Wiskers]

First off I want to thank you for the reply to my email and post. I knew when I met you last Feb. at the meeting that you would respond.

I guess you could tell by my post that I was pretty fired up about the nets in the bays this time of year and still am. Regardless of the studies, I still believe that those nets should not be allowed in the bays in March. This is the time of year that game fish are consintrated and migrating into them. I also believe that they affect the fishing.

Before these nets were placed in the bay that I was fishing, we were catching quality fish. After the nets were placed the quality and quantity immediately declined in that bay. That's a fact. You can ask anyone fishing that bay before the nets. Several good fishermen to choose from. The nets were set high enough that I and 2 others that I know of, hit them with our lower units. I talked to 1 of the guys that hit it and saw another guy hit it. Yes, I called when I hit the net. I was told that they were legal.

It also strikes me as odd, that right after I made that post the nets were pulled out of the bay. I’m talk’n 2 days after the post. No fish left? Nope, still a few! Season over? Nope! Coincidence?

I've got a good idea why they’re out, but I’ll keep that opinion to myself.

I do know what I saw in a commercial fisherman’s boat that day 2 years ago. (I don’t know if this is the same fisherman. I want to make that clear.) It was big crappie. I don’t know how many there were but it was more big crappie than I’ve seen in one place, at one time, in a looooong time. And yes I made the call. I don’t know if my call had anything to do with it but shortly after that call a guy was caught illegally netting in that bay. So you see I am a little gun shy about netting.

With that said… I want to let everyone know that I don’t believe every commercial fisherman out there is a poacher. There are some good, hard working fella’s out there, doing it right and trying to scratch out a living. But… anytime there is money involved, there are those that will push the envelope.

I agree that the Asian Carp and other ruff fish need to be controlled but question if nets are gonna get it done. That horse is already outa the barn. Trying to control that species with netting is like me trying to spit in the lake to make it rise. I don’t have the answers to the problems. Sure, netting will eliminate a small percentage of the undesirable populations but I’m just not convinced that we ain’t throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

When you guys did your studies on the net’s effects on game fish, were those studies conducted in late march, half way back in the bays, with nets that reached from the bottom to within a foot and a half of the surface, and game fish starting their migration to the shallows? If you did I'll publicly take back everything I’ve said and I’ll shut up!

Lastly, You guys do a good job on 99.9% of what you tackle. I appreciate each and every one of you guys. I just wish there were more of ya.

I know yall stay busy but when someone like me calls, and you wait a week to check out the problem, 99% of the time you're gonna be to late to catch the guy.

Keep plugg'n at the problem and I'll be quiet for now.

Wiskers

[wmw722]

Whiskers, I just want to say that I'm behind you and your efforts to bring this issue to the forefront. I have been a member of this forum for a while, but seldom ever post anything. I also don't live in your area, but I do try to come and fish Ky and Barkley as much as I can. I just want to tell you that I hope you don't do what you said and "Be quiet for now". It's people like you that bring these issues out for discussion. People like me, those that aren't "in the know" so to speak, would not be aware of what's going on.

I have to say this, I've been a cop for over 25 yrs and I know the value of concerned citizens "ringing the bell". You brought up a very valid question....when were these studies done? In the middle of summer when there is a lot of summer help available or were they done in the spring, when the migration to shallow water is starting....I would like to know the answer to that one myself.

Keep it up, buddy! Without you bell ringers, things never get changed. My hat's off to you and hopefully we can meet up sometime.

Mark

[Quackrstackr]

One comment that was made regarded nets blocking the bays. The net mesh is big enough that crappie movement is not stopped, they should be able to pass through it, but could require that crappie swim over, under, or around the net. We did a telemetry study a few years ago with crappie. This study looked at the movement of crappie. We did this by placing transmitters in 60 crappie, and tracking their movement. One study was conducted in Blood River and the other in Sledd Creek at Kentucky Lake. At Blood River, none of the tagged crappie ever left the embayment. At Sledd Creek only a few crappie left the embayment. So the thought that nets might be blocking off crappie getting into these embayments is incorrect. Crappie rarely leave the embayments.

Come again?

How long was this study conducted? 60 crappie is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the biomass in either of those bays. That statement flies in the face of every year 'round fisherman's observations that have ever fished on KY Lake (or any other lake, for that matter).

[CrappiePappy]

Come again?

How long was this study conducted? 60 crappie is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the biomass in either of those bays. That statement flies in the face of every year 'round fisherman's observations that have ever fished on KY Lake (or any other lake, for that matter).

KY: Kentucky Dept Fish and Wildlife -

The tagging/movement study was over a two year period, I think ... this is the only link I can get to work, as I get a server error on the full study.

Only a fish with a tag or transmitter can be tracked ... so how's a "year'round fisherman" going to know if any certain percentage of the fish leave a bay, or not ?? You been marking your released fish :D

... cp

[Quackrstackr]

March to July seems more like 3 1/2 months of tracking data than 2 years worth of year 'round tracking data to me. They didn't even net those fish until mid March and the transmitters died in July. Unless they have conducted more studies over much longer periods of time, you can not make the statement that crappie "stay in the bays and rarely leave".

By year 'round fishermen, I'm talking about guys that find the fish on the main lake during the winter and mid summer and follow them into the bays during the spring. Not the people that only hit them for two months during the spawn.

It is pretty hard to deny the patterns that serve to catch crappie throughout the seasons year after year. Common sense tells you that the brunt of the fish are not staying in one place or bay simply by following the fishing activity.

What about all of the crappiethon tagging that went on over the years? To the best of my recollection, many of those fish didn't simply hang out at the release point to be caught and claimed.

[prister]

There were actually two tagging studies that occurred with crappie. The shorter study was with the radio transmitters. The second study to track movement and angler mortality used floy tags. Floy tags were the small yellow tags, which anglers could return to be entered into a drawing for prizes. The floy tagging study lasted a few years, or until no more tags were returned. The last tag turned in was from a crappie that was tagged 826 days previous. That is about 2 years and three months.

Again, my statement was crappie rarely leave the embayment that they are in. How I justify that statement is based not only on the telemetry study, but also on the floy tag study. We know where we tagged the crappie at and when. When an angler returned a tag, we found out when it was caught and where.

First example: At Blood River we tagged 510 crappie, of which 223 tags were returned. So the percent returned was 44%. This gives us a measure of mortality, although it is probably a little low, because I know some anglers that did not take the time to turn their tags in. Of these tagged crappie caught (and the tag was returned), only 10 (4%) were caught somewhere else other than Blood River (where they were originally tagged). One was caught in Anderson, Big Bear, Cypress, Ledbetter, Sugar and Turkey. Two were caught from both Jonathan and Patterson. There were some crappie caught in Blood River well over a year from being tagging in Blood River. One crappie was tagged on 3/15/03 in Blood River and caught on 04/18/04 in Blood River.

Second Example: Big Bear had 62 crappie tagged, of which 30 were caught (tags returned). Only three (10%) were caught outside of Big Bear embayment. These three were caught from either Sledd, or Bee Springs.

Third Example: Of the 25 crappie tagged from Sledd Creek, only 7 tags were returned, and they were all caught in Sledd Creek.

Last Example: Jonathan Creek there were 400 crappie tagged, of which 188 tags were returned (47%). Of the tags returned 8 (4%) came from outside of Jonathan Creek. These fish had traveled to Ledbetter, Smith, and Big Bear. There were also several crappie tagged in Jonathan Creek, that were caught a year later in the same embayment. Two of them were caught well over two years later, tagged in Jonathan, caught in Jonathan.

So I rest my case. Rarely (maybe around 5%) of the crappie leave their embayment. We did a similar floy tagging study in 1988, and saw similar results.

Some may decide to knit pick these studies. I will agree they may not be the most precise measurements of what the fish are doing. But when dealing with a 58,000 acre reservoir (Kentucky’s portion of KY Lake), they are about the best you could probably expect.

Going back to the original discussion, the gill nets are not a major problem in blocking crappie movement into embayments. They are going to swim through it, because the net mesh is 5 or 6 inch mesh. When a net has a 5 inch bar mesh that means when it is stretched open it is a 10 inch opening. Or the fish will go over, under or around the net.

[Quackrstackr]

Can one not reasonably assume that the fish may act something like their cousins the salmon and move distances back and forth to spawn in the same areas? Salmon spend pretty much their entire lives in the sea only to come back to darn near the exact same river rock they hatched under to spawn themselves.

How do you explain the shift in fishing tactics from winter into spring where people are catching fish on main lake ledges and the bite progresses from there to the mouth of the bay and then on up into the embayments? Pure coincidence or do the fish just get hungry at different times?

The brunt of the crappie harvest appears to happen at around the same time as when the fish were captured and released. One would reasonably expect that they would be in the same place, if they do tend to move back to a traditional spawning area.