Jig Swap Issues ... How Best to Resolve?

1. Not enough time to get signed up...
This is probably the biggest complaint that I see/receive. Sometimes the swaps fill up fast..... sometimes they don't. In the beginning it took quite a while to fill up a swap either by a deadline date or by a maximum number of tyers. Recently though we don't have a problem whatsoever of getting a good number of tyers in on a swap. The problem is ... the maximum number is set low. Those that "live" on the forum get in and those that don't "live" on the forum don't get in. And I can totally understand the angst that one would have if they did not get in on a swap when they log in only to find out that it had already filled up.

So....
ISSUE---> no matter if you set a sign-up deadline date or impose a maximum number of tyers... either way you're going to get folks that just didn't get in on it in time.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... There's no way around this. It's a given and it will be encountered no matter what. There MUST be a cut-off date to get in on the swap; otherwise the swap would have no end because folks are continually signing up. So to me it's a moot complaint. Some say run multiple swaps... do that and all you'll get are compounded complaints from those that didn't get in on either of the swaps!


In my opinion with the increased number of tiers that want to participate there should be a standardized time frame for all future swaps whether it be a 7 day window or a 14 day window for signing up for the upcoming swap. The amount of days really doesn't matter as long as it is standardized and the same for each and every swap. The number of tiers allowed to participate in the swap should not have a maximum number cap as many as would like to participate should be able to do just that. With a standardized signup window there should be no complaints about not being able to participate in a swap, since it would be the same time frame for each and every swap. I would recommend at least a 10 -14 day signup window which should be ample time for anyone that really wants to participate to log in check the site and sign up if they so choose too.

When the swap is announced you are given the specifics on what you are tying, usually weight of the jig, any specific color that must be used, things along that nature. The tiers should read this prior to signing up to make sure that this is something that he really wants to participate in right from the beginning. It also gives them a heads up if they need to purchase any specific supplies for the swap as well. Also keep in mind that if you have a 10-14 day signup window that is also time that can be used by the tiers that have already signed up to figure out what they want to tie and can actually get a jump start on tying their jigs.

2. Time frame to get jigs in to the swapmeister is too far off...
Let's get one aspect of these swaps clearly identified.... there are some tyers who can crank out jigs left and right in a short amount of time. There are also tyers who don't work fast for one reason or another.

So....
ISSUE---> if the timeline is too short... the swap is geared to the more skilled tyers who can turn out the jigs in a short order of time. If the timeline is too long, the liveliness of the swap tends to die out and the excitement of it wears off quickly.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... Now keep in mind that the complaints revolve around everyone not being able to get involved. The timelines on the swap must take into consideration that there is a great mix of skill levels involved and if the complaint is to make the swap where everyone can get involved, the timelines must be set so that all skill levels can EFFECTIVELY participate.


In my opinion the tying time should be no longer than 21 days from the start date of the swap.

meaning....

1. 10 - 14 day signup window (this is free time to start tying some jigs if you choose to do so.

2. 21 days after the sign up window closes all tying should be complete. ( Dont forget about the 10-14 day signup window that can be used which would give you roughly 30 days to finish tying all your jigs. Which should be ample time for all level of tiers involved in the swap.) ( That 10-14 day window also give you plenty of time to obtain any required material as well which will help prevent any delays towards the end of the swap so they can come to a close in a timely manner.)

This would allow for a swap to start roughly every 45 days



3. Drop outs...
In a swap there is the potential for someone to just drop out. And in some cases there is no notice nor any explanation given as to why the tyer dropped out.

So....
ISSUE---> someone drops out.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... If it's a last minute thing what can you do? Nothing... But if the swapmeister is made aware of this tyer dropping out and there's still some time left in the swap.... the swapmeister must decide whether to (A) continue the swap with one less tyer or (B) find an alternate. Now again we go to Issue #1 and the fact that not everyone is going to be able to participate in the swap. There may be enough time to find an alternate who can crank out the number of jigs in time and then again, those constraints might be too much and the alternate can't make it. So you notify the alternate... how long do you wait before moving to the next alternate. Oh but then the first alternate might come back and say he didn't "live" on the forum and only recently logged in to see the offer to get in on the swap and now he/she wants in. Yeah... more issues and complaints on the way!


This is really out of the control of the swapmeister... all that can be asked from the tiers would be to let the swapmeister know as soon as you know that you have to drop out and cannot participate in the swap. Courtesy to the swapmeister and other fellow tiers is all that can be asked for. Really no need to make the other tiers, tie more jigs than are actually needed for the swap, especially if you know you will be dropping out early in the swap




4. Not enough jigs mailed in...
It's happened to me on swaps that I ran and in swaps that I participated in. And as they say, history is bound to repeat itself!

So....
ISSUE---> supposed to send in 15 but the swapper only sends in 10.

RESOLUTION---> what say you?

In my humble opinion... I don't know!! This one always leaves me feeling discombobulated and it's something I pontificate on from time to time to find a suitable solution to the problem.


This one I feel there is really no excuse to do such a thing, if you are required to tie 40 jigs then so be it tie your 40 jigs and submit them to the swapmeister. There should be no excuse for sending 20 jigs when the swap calls for 40, I feel that if a tier is short by more than 1 jig (mistakes happen) then by default they should be dropped from the swap and the swapmeister should just return the jigs to the tier.


But personally I think there should be some kind of rules in place governing the Jig Swap's that puts some kind of standardization in place in black and white, for all the swapmeister's to follow. As well as some simple rules that are required for the tiers to follow as well. Both parties have some responsibility in making each and every jig swap fun and successful, and lets face it most of us get involved in the swaps for the joy of tying that we all have for it, and the new ideas and techniques that we get from each other by sharing are own tying skills with each other.

Jig Swaps should be fun and a place for your imagination and new ideas to run wild. Sharing with each other our own creativity not all the bitching and complaining that is starting to unfold here over the past couple of swaps.

Lets face it guys winter in setting in and we are only going to get more tiers showing up as the weather gets colder. That is only the nature of the beast so lets get this fixed and the only way we will do that is by working together everyone pulling in the same direction. We have a good thing going here lets not loose it over some petty ass bull****. (excuse the language)

I think I am done for now, but I am sure I will be back with more input here shortly.

1. 10-day notice before a jigswap starts and a 3-day window to sign up. This can take place while the current jigswap is winding down.

2. No limit to the number of participants.

3. Late jigs will be returned to the original sender. You know the deadline.

4. Not enough jigs sent, jigs will be returned to the original sender.



sounds simple to me!

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Originally Posted by OKSTATEjiggy

Since I'm around a computer all the time, having to check e-mails, staying in touch with classmates, checking for assignments, grades, and other class info, looking at OSU schedules, deadlines, looking up information pertaining to class curriculum, and logging on to Crappie.com dozens of times a day to give my mind a break from reading and studying and thinking about parallels and aspects that could be analyzed and written about, I obviously have an unfair advantage over the rest of you at checking posts.

That being said, since my jigs are only good for catching dinks and hanging up in brush, getting wrapped around limbs, stuck on rocks, and lost because a knot went bad, and because for me, these swaps are merely for recreation, idea sharing, and connecting with people around the country who share an interest in the greatest hobby/means of catching fish ever thought of, and because "I know bout everything they is to know 'bout da tyin' business" (Bubba Blue), and because people out there want to participate in swaps a lot more than I do, I solemnly pledge to GUARANTEE ONE SPOT TO EVERY SWAP by NOT PARTICIPATING in any more swap AFTER Saline Lake Jigs' THANKSGIVING SWAP. In this season of Thanks, I want to Give somethIng back to a great bunch of people, so one spot will be guaranteed.

Your friend and fellow jig tyer,

O. S. Jiggy, Esq.

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Really sorry to hear you feel the way you do about it Jiggy"Nice save though..."I think":confused:

"THANK YOU NIGHT PROWLER":eek:...see that didn't hurt!
Very well put big boy!:D

Guess its JJJ's turn to advertise the #13 swap after the speedy swap of the #12 ,as I don't believe crappie killer even exists here at c.c anymore??? I'm sure it will have a great turn out.The man has shown monumental dedication to this hobby,and some of the most superior jigs ever seen!:eek:I'd sell my boat to be present in it!After all"Its all about the bank now boy's!!!:rolleyes:
I'm sleepy..."later Ma-nerd D!

5. Dropouts are the nature of the beast. It means the swapmeister iinherits the extra set of jigs or we can donate the set of jigs to the owner of CRAPPIE.COM for a contest of his liking...if he interested that is.

On not enough time to sign up for jig swaps/ number of tyers in a swap. I do not think that we need to tell each swapmeister how many swappers need to be in each swap. There are a lot of tyers on here that are interested in swapping and running swaps. That if someone wants to have a swap with a smaller number of tyers in it that should be ok. If there are still enough tyers wanting to get in a swap have the next swapmeister start their swap. We should be able to have more than one swap going at a time. Some people have been signed up to run a swap for close to a year, they should be able to determine if the want 15 tyers or 50.

the way i see it is the swapmiester makes the swap rules and if you like the rules you join, if you don't, you don't jump in.

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Originally Posted by ejones1961

On not enough time to sign up for jig swaps/ number of tyers in a swap. I do not think that we need to tell each swapmeister how many swappers need to be in each swap. There are a lot of tyers on here that are interested in swapping and running swaps. That if someone wants to have a swap with a smaller number of tyers in it that should be ok. If there are still enough tyers wanting to get in a swap have the next swapmeister start their swap. We should be able to have more than one swap going at a time. Some people have been signed up to run a swap for close to a year, they should be able to determine if the want 15 tyers or 50.

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In other words Jones" have something like a #12 and a #13 going on at the same time...?sounds ok to me as far as time,but" the trouble w/ that is your gonna have guys looking to want to learn from a specific tier/tiers ,and may not" be participating in that particular swap available".I can see where that may bare issue...,"then the # of tier's for the parallel swap may greatly diminish not leaving much for the efforts..."

I still like the proposal I came up while voicing w/ Saline last week about having a newbie swap for the beginners,or who ever just wants in that's interested in starting to get a feel for what its all about"You know" If just 1 of all the vets could lead in one lets say(classification)swaps whether its grades ,or a beginner of tyers,and that also would be left up to the tyer what they felt their classification were. Like in billiards",a 1,thru 10 shooter/tyer should they be willing?
we could have several swaps going at one time,but then there is web space issues,...But" maybe 2 going at the same time would have the amount of time,tiers,turnout ,and probability of success rate were all looking for. then again would probably hold separate rules if any..."first on to be addressed w/ the newbies should be that of TIME!"First ,and foremost is one of time constituencies in every aspect of the word TIME".

:rolleyes:Some of us again" may be becoming a little over simplistic. A set of"Structured" rules are very much essential in everything"we do folks this go's w/out question,and should" be taken seriously.like#1 Communications" ,dead lines ,the amount of jigs turned in at the dead line! These are "FISHING JIGS PEOPLE" not" Foreclosure on our homes/cars/boats should ya have them..."Turn in what jig's ya have!"FIRST COME,FIRST SERVE"?Because"I Don't think I want all the p.m.ing that may generate in the beginning of these swaps w/out this rule!"Shouldn't have to be that way,as it promotes favoritism's,and as we just learned that ain't too:cool:

I wouldn't want to start a swap now" as I value the knowledge,and creativity of too many tyers,and their companionship involved w/ the 12 swap at this time and would miss out on their creativity,and friendship,and personally their Ideas as :eek: I cant wait to STEAL" them!!!:rolleyes:I cant be the only one that understands and values the concept of Comrade's" ,and Friendship"..."I'm beginning to believe that those w/ the opinions/concerns of the greed issues here ;may be the ones whom have no" concept of this belief,but like those around them to think they do to afford them their "make it up as we go standards ,because commonsense,and thinking of others just makes it feel too much like work"and may have to Jump Off" at any given time do to conformity,and that's not why were here is it"this should give light to the Neanderthal comment...","if not" that's just too bad...:D

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Originally Posted by JUNGLEJIMJIGS

Instead of limiting the tyers limit the amount of time for the sign up.My opinion is that two days is plenty of time for people who are interested in a swap to sign up. When my swap comes up I'll limit the time,not the # of tyers.If 20 sign up deadline for shipping is 20 days,25 sign up ship in 25 days.You have to average a jig per day to make it on time.That should be plenty of time.

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I think that's the problem. Time limit on sign up. Not everyone looks at the board every day or two days. That should not keep someone from getting in on it. By limiting the number of tyers would be better. IMO.
Look at doing this. Contact the people that have put on the swaps and check to see how many are interested. Give everyone a chance.

Stick to an exact type of jig. One that I was in recently was " tie something you have never done before" great swap but many just made plain old jigs. That may be another issue though.

I tried to get in on the next one and it filled up in one day! MUCH too short!

ONCE again give everyone a chance. Not just the regulars

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Originally Posted by Saline Lake Jigs

the way i see it is the swapmiester makes the swap rules and if you like the rules you join, if you don't, you don't jump in.

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It's not about the rules at all. It's about getting in!!!!!!!!!

How about this?

We all agree on a timeline for swaps. Such as: sign up will start the first of each month. Deadline for sign up will be the fifth. Jigs due in by 20th. Jigs returned to each tyer by the end of month.
Something like that.
Next swap starts the next month on the first.
The timeline could be posted in a sticky so everyone will know it.
The only thing that would have to be decided would be the type of jig.