Went out and tried them on the home lake with my boy, 1 12" 4 under 10 Super slow. The lake looks terrible , super stained it has green algae swirling on the surface. The subdivision decided they could manage the lakes on their own. They took every piece of natural structure out of the coves. The fish are still there just can't catch them. What a mess use to be able to see down 8- 10 feet now 10 inches. Ugh People who don't fish or know nothing about lake management shouldn't be in charge of maintaining lakes.