Retrieving method to control depth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THgGx1_SoYo

I've been using Charlie's method for about forty years now. If it ever stops working, I'll try something else.

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Originally Posted by huntinslabs

If you have access to a swimming pool go and pitch a jig in it and watch how all this plays out visually, including how your line reacts and feels hitting bottom. If another person is willing cut the hook off and have them swat the bait as your retrieving, have them hold an arm in the path simulating a log or limb. Helps alot being able to see what all is going on and feeling at same time.

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This is good idea to see how your presentation react under water with different scenario. I think I saw such video to test out bass bait. Did you take such video or know such video (especially for crappie fishing type) on somewhere?


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Originally Posted by CrappiePappy

Retrieve speed & reel "speed" DO affect the depth on a steady retrieve. That's why many use the countdown method to get the bait down to a certain depth before starting the retrieve (if they maintain the same retrieve speed). The same effect can be made by slowing down your retrieve speed. They're just two means to the same end.
* reel speed = the ratio at which line is returned to the spool per each turn of the reel handle. How full the reel's spool is will also affect retrieve speed. Size of the reel spool is also a factor.

I hold my rod at about the 10:00 position when retrieving a jig, so yes the line would resemble a play yard slide. I'm also using hi-vis line. Both play a part in bite detection. I can see the line under most all lighting conditions, due to the hi-vis coloration ... and I can see the line movement, indicating a bite, more easily due to the length of line above the water. My rod is also in a position to set the hook, with less arm lifting movement than if the rod were pointed down towards the water. That play yard slide "slack" also does a few other things. It allows the fish to engulf the jig without feeling resistance from the rod tip, while still allowing the bite to be seen AND felt. If you have a fairly sensitive rod, the weight of the line from rod tip to water is enough to transmit the tic or thump of a fish inhaling the bait ... and if not, you can still see line movement to indicate that bite.

Personally, I'd rather SEE the bite (line jump/go slack), than I would to FEEL the bite ... simply because when I feel the bite I know the fish can also feel the rod. And if the fish isn't totally committed to having my bait, that resistance from the rod can cause the fish to spit the bait back out ... which they can do in less than 1/3 the time it takes you to react with a hookset.

My normal cast is about 40' ... and I take approx 30-35sec's to retrieve the bait back ... which means the bait is being retrieved at ~10" per second (or 0.56mph) ... which is about 2sec's per handle turn on my reel. My reel retrieves at about 20" per each handle turn.
The deepest depth my 1/16oz jig will go at that speed is about 8ft deep (if I start my retrieve when bait hits water). And the jig is not coming back to me in a straight line, but actually slowly falling in depth, until it reaches that 8ft depth, then starts to slowly rise towards the rod tip.

When I'm pushing jigs with my 14' rods ... I generally move between 0.6-0.8mph. When people longline troll, they generally move at around 1mph. And when people push/pull cranbaits, they generally move at around 1.8mph. Whereas Spider Riggers generally move at less than 0.4mph. So my casting retrieve speed is faster than a Spider Rigger, but slightly slower than a Jig Pusher.

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This is an excellent in depth explanation of the relation between retrieving speed and depth.

In addition, that is a good example to demonstrate actual retrieving speed when using a 1/16 oz jig. It makes sense to have "play yard slide" type of line control. Now I know what to watch for with this technique.

Let us clarify some other questions:
Taking scenarios of sunset, crappie will be feeding close to the surface. Knowing that faster retrieving speed will keep jig higher in water column. The down side with faster retrieving speed is that maybe jig moved too fast for crappie to catch it.
Under such scenario, what should be best strategy to adapt for the change? Bobber, lighter jig, or lure size?


Is there a general crappie strike window of jig retrieving speed in mph? How much does such window change at different water temperature, light intensity (including time of the day)?





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Originally Posted by deathb4disco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THgGx1_SoYo

I've been using Charlie's method for about forty years now. If it ever stops working, I'll try something else.

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Thanks for sharing. Just watched the video. Is it the essence steady slow retrieving? I assume that we don't want jig craw at bottom since crappie is top feeding.


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Originally Posted by parfume4

This is good idea to see how your presentation react under water with different scenario. I think I saw such video to test out bass bait. Did you take such video or know such video (especially for crappie fishing type) on somewhere?


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No sir. Had a pool in my yard for some years and fished it quite often to see how baits looked in the water. Great tool to have.

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Originally Posted by parfume4

This is an excellent in depth explanation of the relation between retrieving speed and depth.

In addition, that is a good example to demonstrate actual retrieving speed when using a 1/16 oz jig. It makes sense to have "play yard slide" type of line control. Now I know what to watch for with this technique.

Let us clarify some other questions:
Taking scenarios of sunset, crappie will be feeding close to the surface. Knowing that faster retrieving speed will keep jig higher in water column. The down side with faster retrieving speed is that maybe jig moved too fast for crappie to catch it.
Under such scenario, what should be best strategy to adapt for the change? Bobber, lighter jig, or lure size?


Is there a general crappie strike window of jig retrieving speed in mph? How much does such window change at different water temperature, light intensity (including time of the day)?

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These are the "signs" I look for in line "movement" to indicate a bite :

Single, quick jump of the line
Line starts moving off to one side or the other
Line straightens out on the retrieve & feels like you have a large leaf stuck on jig
Line suddenly goes completely slack (& you know bait can't be on bottom)

ANYTIME one of these things happens ... set the hook IMMEDIATELY !! Yes, unfortunately you will get hung up every now & then, like when you mistake the jig bouncing off a limb as a bite :Doh: But, that's all part of the learning curve, and those instances will decline with time/experience. BUT, you will also have a higher percentage of hookups, too !!

My best strategy for early or late day shallow water fish, is to put the jig down & fish a 1/32 or 1/16oz marabou Roadrunner !! They're more of a straight cast/retrieve (at a moderate speed) type of lure, and the blade helps keep it "suspended" at a shallower depth. I never worry about the fish not being able to "catch up to" my bait ... because they can see or sense it coming, long before it gets within their strike zone. They're ambush predators, not slash/dash predators or long range chase predators ... so they're quite aware of what's going on around them, and if they're interested or curious about something coming their way, they'll position themselves to intercept it. A lighter jig, and/or use of a float are certainly viable options to consider.

Crappie prefer shade ... and they'll generally find it, whether it's from obstacles above the water or below the water ... and even the clarity of the water. They will also use depth in open water, as "shade".

I really don't know if there's a strike window as it pertains to retrieve speed, since they seem to easily catch a jig or crankbait running at 1-2mph. But, yeah ... different presentation methods do usually call for different speeds of the bait. But, even then, slowing down or speeding up from the "normal" speed of the bait can be more productive ... it just depends on a bunch of different factors, many of which we have no control over.

Fish are cold blooded, so they're the same temp as the surrounding water. That doesn't prevent them from moving as fast as they would in warmer water ... it just slows down their metabolism, so they don't need to eat as often. I've caught fish from Dec-Feb, with water temps in the 40's, on the same jigs, retrieved at the same speed as when the water temps were in the 70's & 80's.

Note : fish can see better/father in colder water.

I learned a few things too!! Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by CrappiePappy

These are the "signs" I look for in line "movement" to indicate a bite :

Single, quick jump of the line
Line starts moving off to one side or the other
Line straightens out on the retrieve & feels like you have a large leaf stuck on jig
Line suddenly goes completely slack (& you know bait can't be on bottom)

ANYTIME one of these things happens ... set the hook IMMEDIATELY !! Yes, unfortunately you will get hung up every now & then, like when you mistake the jig bouncing off a limb as a bite :Doh: But, that's all part of the learning curve, and those instances will decline with time/experience. BUT, you will also have a higher percentage of hookups, too !!

My best strategy for early or late day shallow water fish, is to put the jig down & fish a 1/32 or 1/16oz marabou Roadrunner !! They're more of a straight cast/retrieve (at a moderate speed) type of lure, and the blade helps keep it "suspended" at a shallower depth. I never worry about the fish not being able to "catch up to" my bait ... because they can see or sense it coming, long before it gets within their strike zone. They're ambush predators, not slash/dash predators or long range chase predators ... so they're quite aware of what's going on around them, and if they're interested or curious about something coming their way, they'll position themselves to intercept it. A lighter jig, and/or use of a float are certainly viable options to consider.

Crappie prefer shade ... and they'll generally find it, whether it's from obstacles above the water or below the water ... and even the clarity of the water. They will also use depth in open water, as "shade".

I really don't know if there's a strike window as it pertains to retrieve speed, since they seem to easily catch a jig or crankbait running at 1-2mph. But, yeah ... different presentation methods do usually call for different speeds of the bait. But, even then, slowing down or speeding up from the "normal" speed of the bait can be more productive ... it just depends on a bunch of different factors, many of which we have no control over.

Fish are cold blooded, so they're the same temp as the surrounding water. That doesn't prevent them from moving as fast as they would in warmer water ... it just slows down their metabolism, so they don't need to eat as often. I've caught fish from Dec-Feb, with water temps in the 40's, on the same jigs, retrieved at the same speed as when the water temps were in the 70's & 80's.

Note : fish can see better/father in colder water.

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Good point of using road runner to keep it to the surface for low light condition. I guess another benefit is that blade vibrations on the roadrunners will help crappie locate lure with their lateral line under low light. Maybe this lure can extend the fishing time until totally dark during sun set.


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Originally Posted by parfume4

Thanks for sharing. Just watched the video. Is it the essence steady slow retrieving? I assume that we don't want jig craw at bottom since crappie is top feeding.


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Correct. Use a similar retrieve at whatever depth the crappie ate holding.

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Originally Posted by parfume4

Good point of using road runner to keep it to the surface for low light condition. I guess another benefit is that blade vibrations on the roadrunners will help crappie locate lure with their lateral line under low light. Maybe this lure can extend the fishing time until totally dark during sun set.

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Yes it can ... and I've also caught Crappie at night, casting a Roadrunner (in the dark shadows of a dock with a large halogen light shining in the water, off the front edge of the dock).

Usually, like I've said before, IF the fish are less than 8ft deep ... and the cover can be retrieved over or around ... I'm usually casting the Roadrunner. If the fish are deeper than that, or the cover is heavy (or I don't know), then I'm usually casting a weedless jighead/plastics. And I ALWAYS pick banks that have shade out over the deepest cover along that bank ... as my starting point.